Bridging the Nordics and U.S. with Do Less Management

Jakob Wredstrøm

Anybody could do it. You see like, just like people who have never done anything in music, managing their best friend and like blowing up. Like, you know, it's not rocket science for the lack of better word, but like how you do business is rocket science. Like I am totally not afraid to burn bridges. Like people are like, never burn bridges. The world is too small. Like burn the bridge. If it's not working out, torch it. Being a manager in the music industry is no simple thing. Luckily we have Christiana to help us understand it. She's a founder. She's based in LA. She's an expert in the Nordics. She's gonna help you understand a bit more what it takes to be a manager.

Jakob Wredstrøm

Hey guys and welcome to a new episode of Sound Connections. I am very blessed to have a really interesting guest today. That is Kristiana from LA. Hey! Thank you for being a sport and jumping on the podcast. Our relationship was actually, you know, kind of a recent one. So we met up a lot, which is a Norwegian music industry conference and we were sitting together at the place that is the most wonderful to be in together with the Finnish people. I always loved being with them and we sort of sat on a table together and started speaking and you have a really interesting career. I did see you at Bülalm briefly when you were curating a management talk. So obviously you must be a manager. Yep, I guess I am among other things, but yes, definitely a manager. Great, and we'll sort of go into your founders journey because this is a part of Founders series on the podcast. Talking about your journey into, until you came and started your venture, but also sort of what you're doing right now and how you look for the future. So that's going to be a really interesting thing. But I was also very lucky that you actually came by our offices in Stavanger because you have a person that you work with in Stavanger. That's very random. And it's... Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It was my first time in Stavanger and I loved it. What a beautiful place you live in and work in. And so, so unlike anywhere I've ever been. So really exciting to see. That's great. Well, I'm curious. You've had an interesting career. And right now you run Do List Management, which is a really interesting thing. Before we go into your story getting into the industry, could you briefly talk about what is Do List Management? Yeah, well, Do List Management originally started as a management company. We were bridging the gap between the Nordics and the US. We kind of saw like a little bit of a gap in that. Uh, people just weren't really talking to each other. A lot of people were coming over to LA and Nashville and be like, who do we connect with, how do we get involved with what's going on here? So we were kind of just like that rich. And we also started during COVID. So, um, there were really no people on the ground. Um, we started our company literally a month before COVID. So, uh, it ended up being, you know, a good place to be that kind of like middle person, um, it's definitely a fault since then, but that's kind of how we started.

Jakob Wredstrøm

Yeah, and what is your connection to the Nordics? You know, that's a really interesting question. I, you know, I started working with the Nordics through a group called share music group. One of the guys was based in Nashville, and went to Belmont University, which is where I graduated from. And another guy was based in Los Angeles, who also went to Belmont at one point. And then one guy was based in Askr Norway outside of Oslo and I was like, who are these three people putting on conferences doing things in Oslo or outside of Oslo and why am I not involved? Like Nashville, LA, Oslo, like I need to be involved. So I initially flew over, like I'd been to Oslo many times, my husband is Norwegian, but I flew over to like play in this conference with them.

Jakob Wredstrøm

Working in Oslo and Norway and then Nordics, but now I'm a consultant for Music Norway or Market Advisor and also work a lot with Iceland music as well. So it's kind of fun how that all circled back. Yeah, that's a really interesting positioning as well. Like you have a company based out like Skiddy, and then you also have this very, very cool role in Music Norway as being Market Advisor. So well done on that. Hopefully that also brings a lot of business. But what's your story? Did you do music as a young kid? How did you get into the industry? Yeah, well, randomly enough, my whole family was in music growing up. My dad is a songwriter. My uncle is a songwriter. He was married to the late Donna Summer, who was like a disco queen back in the 70s. My cousins are in bands. My whole family is like musical. My mom was an agent for many years, a talent agent. So my whole family is kind of like in the business in some capacity. And I always kind of knew that I wanted to be on the business side. Like I enjoyed singing and performing when I was a kid. But as far as like wanting to do that professionally, it was definitely, I kind of wanted to be more in control of how the outcome would be. So I... you know, ever since I was like 16, I was like volunteering at music festivals in Nashville. I grew up in Nashville. I only wanted to go to Belmont University where they had a music business program, which coincidentally I didn't even, I didn't even join. I was a communications major, but you know, just being around music and being part of it is really what I wanted. And then, you know, when I was a sophomore in college, I was able to start working at Universal Music Group in Nashville. as an intern and then got hired by headquarters as like a college rep, which was like a great way to get my foot in the door like I was working on the weekend and I was like handing out you know Luke Bryan cups at you know Palm Springs and all through Florida like it was just fun so I was able to do like a lot at a super young age and have all these like huge artists that I was working with.

Jakob Wredstrøm

I was able to go to LA a lot and meet with head carters here in San Monica. And it was just like a really good way to get my foot in the door. And I kind of got a taste of like what it was like behind the scenes instead of being on the creator side. And I really, I really enjoyed that. So yeah, that's kind of how I got my foot in the door a little bit. I'm a bit curious because, you know, when looking at statistics for this podcast, most the listeners are from the Nordics or Europe. And you know, the way you just described of having this college rep role is obviously something that's very foreign to most industries is not America. That is it. Could you describe to me with that experience, what is the difference getting into the industry in that way compared to how it would be in the Nordics generally? Yeah, I mean, These like, rap programs exist in like, lots of different industries. Like, I don't know if you guys have like, Red Bull or Monster Energy, but you know, you see people giving out cans at concerts and, you know, similar to lead at that, at that time we were handing out, we were doing a little bit of, you know, posters and stickers and just kind of raising awareness at different parties. We would have listening parties, like I remember. We had the weekends trilogy listening party and Universal would send us a budget and we would basically just be the coolest people on campus throwing these really fun parties. And yeah, I don't know if that exists in the Nordics at all. I feel like, I will say people I know who work in the business in the Nordics are a lot younger, but you guys just don't have the same college campus and experience that we. have. So I don't know if that would even be a job that would be like feasible there because there wouldn't be like these huge extracurricular activities and like sororities and football games and things like that to like market towards. So yeah, I think that there is pretty much a big dichotomy there. But I mean, interning is still a thing and like this was a paid position, it wasn't an intern role, but you know, there is, you know, experience where you could gain from interning.

Jakob Wredstrøm

Yeah, it's a really cool way to get in. My brother has lived in America for 10 years and did his college and high school degree there as well. And it's really interesting seeing our parallel tracks of life and how different that actually is. That's cool, but you must've done a good job because you didn't stop there in Universal. You got some more opportunities. Could you walk through how that progressed for you? Yeah. Well, it was kind of funny because I was graduating during the time of like a really weird time in the world, essentially. Universal was also going through a merger with EMI, which was another major record label. So Universal and EMI's department kind of combined, which meant they let a lot of people go and like a lot of things kind of switched around. So I had a lot of responsibility in like the digital front through my internship. So I was like interning part time and I was working part time, which kind of and then going to school full time. So. Um, was kind of a lot, but it was fun. Um, but I did think I got a little bit more responsibility on the digital front. I think they called it new media at the time. So I was helping out with that. And then similarly, I just wanted to be in LA. I just, I don't know why I'd grown up in Nashville. I was kind of like a little bit, um, jaded from working with country music artists. I wanted to work with other genres. And at that time, like Nashville just didn't have a lot other genres going on. It was just primarily country. So. I moved out to Los Angeles and like did not have a job with Universal like after I graduated college like my Internship ended and my college rep job ended And they were like, yeah, just come out to LA like, you know Well, you can interview like you already have a foot in the door So like you could interview for new roles and blah So I move out to LA, I'm like, oh, Universal's 100% gonna hire me. Why would they not? Like, you know, whatever. So cocky as a kid. And I was like 20, 21 moving out. So I'd been working for them since I was 19. And then there were two months where I was just like, what am I doing with my life? I just moved across the world and like, Universal's on a hiring freeze. Like, what am I gonna do? And I took just like any and every interview and I ended up with like the best fit being

Jakob Wredstrøm

a man named Adam Zelenka, he was the SVP of consumer sales and marketing for Universal Distribution, which was like the central hub. So I got like this kind of like assistant job of a lifetime being his assistant, which was amazing. Just being off the desk and like, I had a lot of opportunities at that time. Universal also acquired Digster, which was like a bunch of playlists on Spotify. So I was like curating these Digster playlists and like designing the covers and like. Photoshop and like, so I was basically curating playlists before that like became a thing. And that like, Dinkster group like, ended up being an entire department under JFraik, which was funny because we were like, just doing it as our part time assistant jobs at the time. So yeah, I was like kind of wild that transition. But I'm glad I did it. And then was able to like, you know, look at other opportunities from the inside, which was nice. Yeah, so also before we venture further on, because that, you know, of course, also led to other opportunities. Yeah. You mentioned moving to LA. And one of the things that I really want to talk to you in this episode is about LA. Because, you know, as a consultant between the Nordics and America, you know, LA is quite central for what happens music wise. But it's also a sort of a mysterious place, because it's people don't really understand it that well, but it's also really difficult and nuanced. But. Could you explain a bit what is LA to you music-wise? Yeah, I mean, I would say LA is where the business is. Like not all the artists necessarily live here, but like the main business is in LA. Like it used to be in New York. Some would argue that a lot of it is moving to Nashville. I would say publishing is really based in Nashville. But as far as like the business, like the top players are here, not New York, not Nashville, here. Los Angeles. So if you want to like operate on that higher echelon, like that just next level, here's where you're going to be. And it might not mean moving here, but it's definitely, you know, visiting frequently. But I just think for me, like I just, there's all genres here. There's, you know, there's just so much happening. There's events every single week. It's just, it's the Mecca for like networking and...

Jakob Wredstrøm

creativity in my opinion. So Nashville is always going to be my home and I think like a lot of pop music and indie music and the artists are actually moving to Nashville. I think as far as songwriters and publishing you can't beat Nashville. Like there's gonna be nowhere better but for now I would say like in this moment LA is the spot for music. I feel like all music is moving out of New York like I don't know what's happening there but the weather is better here so let's go. The very conflicting feeling I have about LA, I love LA by the way, and I've been there a fair amount, is also how expensive it is, and also if you don't have security in the music industry, how big a struggle it is to just, you know, make a living there. Do you feel like there's enough jobs in the music industry? Like, if you're really talented, let's say you come from No Oye Street in Germany, whatever, up here, and you're really good at what you do, is it realistic even to get a job there? Yes, I would say like, when I see people from the Nordics come to LA, a lot of times they're like living way above, maybe not their means, but just like blowing a budget on like a big house in Beverly Hills or like, you know, a very central location or something like that, where it's like, yeah, you kind of just need to like... strap in a little bit and get a little humble with yourself and maybe not live in like the fanciest part of town or A big thing I think here too is like driving like a lot of people You know are so used to taking public transportation, but like if you're not if you don't have a car And you can't drive you're like useless like there's no There's no way of making it in the city Just ubering around and that's a lot of money too So like, you know humbling yourself getting a driver's license finding a cheap crappy car I say shitty, shitty car. And just like, you know, getting to that point where it's like, I'll do anything it takes to stay here. You know, everybody in here is like, you know, working 12 jobs, blah, blah. It's definitely much more of a hustle. But if you want it bad enough, like I think it's feasible to do, just like you have to stay and live within your means. I mean, when I was first coming over to Norway, I felt like Norway was the most expensive place on earth I'd ever been. I will say like now LA is pretty high up there.

Jakob Wredstrøm

It's also like, are you eating out every single day? Are you going out to the bars every single day? What are you doing with your money? So I think it's definitely easy to budget and live within your means if you prioritize that instead of prioritizing the glitz and glam of Los Angeles. Yeah, I think, but that might also be the trap that people fall into quite often. And also, yeah. That makes sense. We'll venture back to that because I think it's a really interesting talk, especially when it comes to opportunities in the industry. But you were at Universal and you're sort of that progressed and you came into position of what was it labels? You can just react a bit better. Yeah, I mean, I think the name changed like four times when I was there, but it was like label. It was called a oh my god, it was originally called an artist development rep and then we get label. marketing rep and then artist relations or label relations, they'd like change three times. But really this is like what I'd like to call like the glam job of the 90s. Like there were one of these people in like every market in most territories. By the time I got involved, like universal distribution kind of went through a restructure and that's kind of why I transitioned to this role. My... boss had left and you know I was kind of assisting two other different people and this job came up and it was like my dream job like literally my dream job from when I was a kid like I always wanted to be in artist development I always wanted to be kind of like in the ground I hated being in an office full time I just thought this was the coolest job like you get to hang out with the artists and go on the road and create these like marketing strategies and do like in stores and like work with their local record stores and work with everybody on everybody's team management labels like everything so it was really cool and They were needing somebody to work For in Nashville, so basically be the rep in the southeast and Texas As well as working with those independent record labels who were distributed through Universal like Big Machine, Taylor's label

Jakob Wredstrøm

Concord, S-Curve, Ingrues, like, you know, Disney Music Group, Hollywood, all of these smaller labels at the time were distributed through Universal. So I was kind of like sent back to Nashville to be that like liaison between Universal and these smaller labels, which meant like my big client working with Taylor Swift, which was really cool, and Maddie and Tay, and just like all these amazing artists to have like a piece in that story was like really, really awesome. But yeah, but that might be not exiled, but like sent back to Nashville. So I like just got to LA. I'd been there about a year and I was like, but then this like incredible job opportunity opened up and I was like 22, 23 and it was like, I cannot like not take this amazing job. So I like left LA and like was back in Nashville again. But you know, it's always kind of nice to be the big fish in Little City at the time. Like Nashville wasn't what it was right now. Like it was just such a small city and like. I just, I was like, you know, able to go to all the concerts and the red carpets. And like at that time that was really, you know, you're 23, like that's so fun. I mean, it was still fun, but like, it was really fun when you're, you know, 23 with a corporate card. It was great. So, yeah, really good times, but a lot of, lot of work. And we were like also assigned to like, you know, as there used to be one person in every little, you know, I don't know, district or just area, like. We were down to like, I think four people like divided in four working on all parts of the country. So it was like, it was a little bit more intense. Yeah, but fun. Well, that's unique opportunity. Wow. And you know, that also gave you some opportunities more and you moved into Concord before you started your own company. Could you explain briefly about what you did at Concord? Yeah, I mean, at the time I was dealing with some mental health and like health issues after being under a lot of stress to be honest, working with some hard people and I just kind of needed to be in a more...

Jakob Wredstrøm

nine to five, for lack of a better word, like situation. I really wanted to learn more about project management. As I mentioned before, my aunt was Donna Summer. So like being able to work in catalog was really exciting. And I learned a lot about, you know, audio file quality vinyl and like reissues. I worked with like REM and Taking Back Sunday and CCR and Joni Mitchell and James Taylor and like all these like classic people that I had grown up listening to. I was like project managing their releases. So like, that was crazy to me. Again, like a huge amount of workload was put on me, which was like fine. But like, I think, you know, at that time, like I had already been working since I was 19 years old, just pretty much nonstop, minus those like two months that I had off when I first moved to LA. But, you know, I think at that point you just kind of needed a break. Um, so yeah, I ended up, you know, taking a little bit of sick leave. To like, you know, take a break essentially. And then after my sick leave ended, I ended up just like not going back. I was like, no, I'm good. Like I need a break, a real break that lasted like a month. But you know, in my head I was like, I'm gonna take some time. So honestly, it was kind of like a little bit out of necessity that I just was like, you know, I gave myself six months. Like I'm like, I have enough of my savings to like last for six months without working for a little bit and just like healing. My body and healing my mind and just taking that time. And then, you know, when the six months ended, I had already been working a little bit in Norway on these conferences. I'd just kind of been doing the job already. I, you know, I previously worked with like Aurora on some campaigns with Glassnote when I was at LMR. And like, you know, I just... seen a lot with like the Nordics and I just thought that the way you all work was so interesting to me. I was like, this is really cool. So yeah, I was like, I just saw like a market of like, oh, people are coming to LA, people are coming to Nashville, where do we do it? So like, I just started like managing a couple artists, helping them like bridge the gap. And I was like, ah, I'd rather do this. Let me just do this for a year and see how that goes. And, you know, getting to work in the artist development again, like, that's the thing is like,

Jakob Wredstrøm

you know, these bigger labels don't want you to be like developing. They want you already pretty much developed. Like I even remember like Universal used to have this like huge banner, like we stand for artistry and artist development. And they just like scraped it off their walls. Like they don't stand for that anymore. Like, like as managers, like we're the ones doing the artist development, which was like a really exciting process. So yeah, that's kind of like what led to like starting it, um, which was great. Yeah, and this is where you are now. Obviously, you've been doing that for a few years. But can you tell me a bit more about your roster? Like, who do you work with and how do you work with them? That's changed a lot, as anything does. Yeah, I mean, initially, I had started with a couple bands who were always just like... hey, can you manage me? Hey, can you manage me? For me, it was always a little bit of a conflict of interest, like working at a label and managing. I know that's very common in the Nordics, and it's even getting more common here, but at the time, working for corporate at Universal, you couldn't manage anybody. It was a conflict of interest. Sure. So yeah, I just never really thought about it. But yeah, the clients that I had when I started were basically just local Southern California artists that were like, please manage us. You'd be great at it, like please try. And I was like, I've never managed before. And honestly, when I wanted to start a company, I wanted to start a record label because my family had owned a record label. I knew about record labels. I've never worked in management. I like understand it. I've worked on the product management side and I've worked in artist development, but I've never actually worked in management in that capacity. So like, what do I know in that sense? So I want to start a record label, like I know that. And then I was like, hmm, how much would I need to actually start a record label? I was like, poof, let's start a management company. That's free. But for lack of a better word. So I started with just like clients that I was working with, a band called Fiona here in LA, another band that I still work with called West Chiller. And then basically started meeting people. I quarantined a little bit in Norway during COVID. So meeting artists there and being able to like have nothing better to do, but like develop them essentially. So that was super exciting. And we have like, you know, several full-time like.

Jakob Wredstrøm

for lack of a better word, like commission-based artists. And then we also have kind of like a hybrid model where like maybe artists aren't quite ready for management yet, but like need the guidance and support. So we have like a consulting arm for that as well. But then we've also like, you know, joined forces with another management company called Sorem, who's Norwegian, Mattias, and you know, he's managing. Writers and producers like Harv, who's Justin Bieber's musical director, and Felicia and Valen. And so we've been able to work on projects together, bringing these A-list writers in to help develop and mold acts into the next level. So it all kind of works some... I hate the word synergy. I can't believe I almost just said that. Who am I? Synergy. Synergy? Yeah. How is it starting a company in LA? Because you know, starting a company, let's say in Norway, you know, that's where I live right now, is you know, there's a very big security system. Risk gaining you back up to what's up. But as I understand in America, there's not the same social security net like you can't just you know, can't just fail that not having consequences. Like how does it feel starting something in LA? Yeah, I mean, it was funny because right before this call, I just walked through a friend who is literally going through the process of starting her own company. And I was like, this is what you need. You need an S-Corp, not an LLC, like blah, blah. But it's like the only reason like I know all of this is because like I had a business manager like walk me through this. So like, you know, I'm only being able to like regurgitate like what I know from like being helped myself. So, yeah, like.

Jakob Wredstrøm

There is no safety net here. We don't have a lot of governmental support in any means, but as I mentioned, like I had started my company in February right before the pandemic. And you had to have started your company in January of 2020 to get any type of governmental assistance. So, it was like a month off, right? Oh, no. But personally, as an individual, we were able to, you know, get Yeah, I don't know like assistance through like California essentially like they were just giving us like basically like survival Which is like the first time like I think any of us have ever gotten that like just being like you would have to have had This like whole big thing and like it was just like everybody was getting extra little You know stimulus checks and things like that which really helped honestly like so I will say like I did get a little bit of that extra security during that time but yeah, like That's why so many people I feel like take incubator money or like take, you know, have investors and things like that. Um, yeah. So I think it's just interesting to be in that kind of space. Yeah. It makes sense. What would have, when you, when you, when I read your LinkedIn, you know, you talk about empowering women in the music industry. Uh, do you believe it's, it's more difficult as a founder being a woman in the music industry, like, what do you focus on when you write that? Yeah, I mean, like, again, I was like coming up during, like, right before, like, the Me Too movement and things like that. So like, you know, there was never any type of conversation about that in Hollywood or in the music industry until like, I don't know, like, 20, when was that, 2016? 15, 16. So like I was coming up before all of that. And like, I think, you know, being able, there's so many more, like all these labels now have like mental health resources and like women's groups and people of color and you know, just like diversity, like that's an initiative for these companies. That being said, like, um, you know, it's still really hard to push that narrative, um, even with all these things, it's getting better. And I think just like being a voice.

Jakob Wredstrøm

Who supports that and being an ally for things going on in the world. It's like a lot more tumultuous than like, you know, being in the Nordics, I'd say. You could really feel the pressure here. So yeah, just, you know, letting people know that like I support, you know. marginalized people essentially. Not saying that all women are marginalized, but like, yeah, we're like the minority, like, especially when I go into a meeting room, I'm usually the only female. I'm definitely, you know, the only person, like, if there's anybody as a person of color, like, they are the minority even more so, but like, as a woman, I'm usually, like, the only one sitting at the table, so. Hmm. Whereas I think the Nordics do a really good job of, like, you know, making sure things are balanced and equal. Yeah, but it's really interesting, you know, I've been talking with my colleagues a lot about this, and we don't have a clear answer and reflection upon why it is. But of course, if you go to Oslo, knowing in general, I would say there's a relatively high female representation, but even when you go back to Denmark, where I'm from, it's very male dominated. And, you know, I can only imagine other territories even more. What's your commentary on that? Like, what's the reason that is a thing? in the US or in the Nordics? Well, let's do US since that's where your expertise and you're based. Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just, you know, the male-dominated, white male-dominated space. Yeah, I just feel like people weren't necessarily given a voice until very recently, and even now it's just like not any better. But I think, yeah, with just speaking out and things like that. groups like diversity groups and inclusion groups and things like that. There's like now whole conferences based around mental health in the entertainment industry, like artists are getting support and that's really like do less like my company was really surrounded around that as well, like mental health, like there were so many artists that I saw like doing too much being taken off the road because they were getting too sick, like, like mental health and health in general was just not prioritized whatsoever for employees and artists.

Jakob Wredstrøm

And how I feel like a lot of labels are even giving like their artists like funds to like have mental health services and things like that. Like they're doing better, but like it's not great. So I think, you know, in the Nordics, obviously healthcare is more available than it is here. Like my healthcare is like 600 bucks a month, you know, it's like very expensive. Yeah, I think it's just a little bit different where the priority is like if you wanted like any type of mental health services or something, you'd have to like go and seek it out. Whereas like in the Nordics, I feel like those services might be a little bit more offered at companies, or at least like the ability for like sick leave. Like when I was taking sick leave, I like was not getting paid for it. Like I was working part time and getting paid, you know, whatever. But like if you're taking sick leave, like it's unpaid, you know, so it's a really interesting conversation. I hope it's okay that we dwell a bit on it. Personally, my experiences, I've never been good around girls when I grew up or anything. I've been like, if I had any friends, oh, that sounds sad, but if I had any friends, there's a few select guys, and that also, when I got into the music industry, looking around me, I didn't really myself have the focus on, it's called inclusion of the other gender. I was just like, you know, I'll work with my friends and those friends tend to be guys. But what I've also realized now when my company has grown larger is, you know, we've hired females and at least in my experience, they tend to work fundamentally different, especially when they're young compared to young men. Young women and young men work very differently as a generalization, which is just really, really interesting. My question is, that was sort of preempted to my question is... the reaction from the American music industry, was that a realization of what are we missing out on? Or was it more of like, we need to fix this because it looks wrong? It's probably we need to fix this because it looks wrong. People are getting like, people are reporting things and like, you know, we have to do whatever is trending. So that's why like speaking out about stuff actually helps, I feel like because

Jakob Wredstrøm

Then they're like, Oh, what are we messing out on? Oh, we have to like, you know, people are going to the artists are in the power position now, like the labels and stuff are definitely not anymore. So like, it's definitely an interesting time to be. Could you elaborate on that? Because, you know, it's something I really observe as well. You say the labels power position is dwindling compared to how much the assets of influence on a say, could you, could you talk more about that? Yeah. I mean, like. these bigger distribution companies are coming up and are able to basically distribute your album, help with any type of support, in some cases even give advances, and be able to, like, you just hire your own team. You're like, you know, before you would have to go to the record label, they'd help develop your look, your, you know, your, I don't know, everything. Your music, your look, everything. Now it's like you're kind of coming to them as already a finished product, but instead you could even go to a distribution company and just like... hire out those like, oh, I need PR, well, let me get $5,000 to $10,000 a month and hire a PR person instead of going through the labels PR who probably has like too much on their plate anyway. So I think it's, you know, it's with money, like what is a record label other than the bank? Obviously, you're able to like pull strings and stuff. with collaborations and things like that. But I think managers and management companies who are also helping artists start their own record labels in their businesses are just as valuable, if not more valuable. And I feel like most artists would trust their team and their team's record label to get the job done a little bit better. That's really interesting because that also fundamentally changes the role of a manager. Because as the power dynamic shifts, You guys also have the opportunity to do more and have more influence of what's happening. How do you experience that in your own career?

Jakob Wredstrøm

To have more influence, yeah, I mean, it's great because, you know, being able to pick our partners is really important. So like being able to choose who we work with is fun, rather than just having to like go with like whoever is already there. But yeah, I think like choosing people who actually believe in the project and are able to propel it forward, everything from like video to film to, you know, visual. I guess I'm just using visuals as an example, but you know. That's all important. Things that a label can help with are basically that they have it all in-house. They have a radio print while person. They have a visuals team usually. They're not outsourcing a lot, but they're taking more percentage. Nowadays, you can not take a percent. You can take a small cut from a distribution company and do it all yourself or hire people to do it out for you and start your own team. That makes sense. What in your opinion right now, is it about labels, traditional label deals that are beneficial to the artist compared to doing it more independently? I mean, really only if you're at that upper level, in my opinion, like they could really propel it to the next level. Like I think, you know, when you are kind of getting to a point where it's like too much for a management team and a small team, like maybe that's where it is or you're making quite a bit of revenue and you need somebody to be able to really and you can even do admin deals for that too, you don't even need a little bit like be able to collect all of the money correctly. That's really important. Putting people in the right rooms as an A&R could be something that would be beneficial if you have the right person, but I feel like most people are able to be hired out if you're interested in you know, a certain A&R or something, maybe they'll do something freelance. You never know. So, um, I also think it's genre specific. Like I would say in the country folk and Americana, having a label is probably very, very important in like a traditional label. Um, those radio teams, like those are, they've been working in this for years and years, it's still very much like a close knit community, but anything on the pop side or the EDM side, I mean, like it's very doable to do within

Jakob Wredstrøm

management and like a record label team with money of course if you have the money. That's a really interesting conversation and I'll just dive a bit more into it because you know now we're talking about management which is your field and that is could you work me through a realistic or hypothetical scenario that this artist you know is super interesting they already have some traction you guys want to build a team yourself but you lack money how would you go about getting money? Well, I mean, are they making money through other types of revenue? Like, are they making money on streaming and stuff like that? Then I'd probably go either to and if it was publishing or whatever, you could always go to like, you know, a P.R.O. get a publishing advance or like a P.R.O. advance, which is like old school, but like they still do them. You could always go to the distributor. There's so many distributors out there, independent ones like Vidya, Stem, Fuga, like the Orchard even. I'd stick, you know, stick to the ones that aren't backed by major labels, but you know, they definitely give out advances. So that's, I mean, that's what I would do. I'd probably go to a distributor with some capital that would want to partner and invest in the project. And do, how do they, how do they assess what sort of advance they're willing to give? What's the math that's behind that reasoning? Usually just numbers and like how much you're earning. I mean, That's primarily like you have to like just hand over like what you're earning and like your royalty statements, you know How are they gonna make it back and what's that timeline like ideally you want to make it back in a year? So like you're gonna ask for an advance that you think that you can make back in a year Yeah through whatever means So, I mean, I don't know their exact process of how they calculate that but like yeah. Yeah, you want to make it back in a year Cool. And as a manager, let's say you would get a bit of an advance from PRO and the publishing side, you would get some from the distributor. Like, how would you typically deploy that? Would it be, okay, then the small net management team, that's sort of where we'll use the, let's say, the retainer model, whatever, so we can sort of start working on a project. How would you go about that? Yeah, I mean, that's the best part of a manager is figuring out how to allocate that budget. And like, you know, that's going back to me, what I wanted to do as a record label.

Jakob Wredstrøm

you know, like doing, you know, more of those bigger projects where you're like, okay, where do I find the money valuable? And I think it's really looking, I'm like not even a data person, but it's like really looking at data and seeing what's hitting. Like, oh, are they doing well on like AAA radio? Maybe we double down and put a big portion of budget. I mean, like to get a radio hit is hundreds of thousands of US dollars to get on top 40 radio. It's expensive. So it's like, do we do that? Do we go the route of like hiring a... uh... dsp relationship person and pitching to the dsp is do we go and really put it in visuals which i don't like necessarily always think is the best use of money i see a lot of artists putting these crazy music videos together and then like you know have no budget left to market them so when i say recommend that but like coming up with some sort of like branding and some sort of visual are you paying it to a song fluency are who can get the word out to influencers and uh... you know you know preppy involved with some campaigns and contests and yeah like it just depends on like how much you're willing to spend on which projects but i think it really depends on the artist and looking at the data and what you do it what i'm gonna do for my clients in iceland i'm folk americana clients is very different than what i'm going to do with like my surf rock california based clients so What's your normal approach to thinking about short-term versus long-term investment for that access? Because obviously, you know, let's say if they had an advance from different parts, you know, that money is going to, you know, stop at one point. That's going to be used up. So obviously, there also needs to be some sort of short-term investment payoff. But what's your thought process between the balance of those two? Yeah, I mean, like, for me, it's like time. Time is money, right? So... from an artist development side, like there's plenty of ways like revenue makers that like you might not necessarily think of like we do a lot in the sync space like you know maybe an artist an artist doesn't have to be known to do well on sync like on TV film advertising so that's like a huge moneymaker some of these ad spots you know can go up to a hundred thousand dollars for 30 seconds whatever it is you know so that's a good moneymaker.

Jakob Wredstrøm

um to help get you know some revenue going for both the management record label side and then like the artists themselves um other revenue makers are like obviously playing live selling merch things like that so kind of going back to the basics where it's not so digitally focused all the time too it's like okay yeah there's more ways to make money than just Spotify I mean

Jakob Wredstrøm

That's great. So like you think of like Diplo radio, it's like, he's just playing his own music all the time. Like, he must be making so much money. So yeah, I'd say like, as far as taking money from other people, yeah, I'd want to make it back in a year. But like, taking money and borrowing from yourself. Yeah, maybe then you can give yourself a little bit more leeway. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. And the artist representation you have right now, you describe it as that there's different territorial representations. Could you just walk through where your artist is placed and what is the typical genre they sort of do? Yeah. So I have a Nordicana, as we like to say, like Folk Nordic in Iceland. They're based in Iceland. I have Southern California. Surf Rocker plays a lot like in the surf world organization, just in the early surf league. So he's based in San Clemente, California. I have another client who's folk Americana, who's based here but moving to Nashville. I have a girl from Norway who is like top 40 EDM pop, who mostly does writing top lining based in Oslo. I have another. Icelandic girl that I'm talking to is based in Oslo. So yeah, it's a little bit all over the place. And then obviously we have the songwriters and producers here in Los Angeles. So yeah, it's a little bit all over, but I don't think like the location necessarily matters as long as you're in a major city. Like if you move to like somewhere I don't personally have connections, like I'm not gonna be able to help you. And I also think like being able to get out to LA or Nashville at least a couple of times a year is gonna like make a difference. So. You describe it making a difference. You've said it before, earlier in this interview. What do you mean by it making a difference that you come and visit those places? Yeah, I mean like doing in-person sessions. Like I think nowadays everybody's pretty over the virtual sessions. So being able to come into town and actually do an in-person session probably will get you placed. Like in LA, I've rarely seen a record get placed by like somebody sending over a, you know,

Jakob Wredstrøm

just like a instrumental and like an artist singing, that rarely, rarely happens. It's so much better to have the artists in the room if they can or be part of their camp that they're doing. And that's really only in person. And some of those camps happen in Cabo, some of them are great. But it's just like being here and being in the room. As far as the business side, it's having these in-person meetings, being able to go to the event. We always say that if somebody doesn't email you, you'll see them at an event later that week. And they know that they're going to see you at that event, so they're going to hit you back faster. So the checks and balances is a little bit better, too. When I was working with some people in New York, it's like getting anything done, I was like, what am I going to have to do, fly to New York and come? make sure you get this stuff. Like, you know, so when you're here, it's like everybody spends with everybody is just like, you know, very great to see people like more connections and more. It's like networking all the time. It's like, oh, I saw this person who works at Spotify. Oh, they just told me that they have this promotion. TikTok's based here. Like there's so much based here. That's like, you know. I think it speaks to the fact that the music industry still is very much like network based. It's about, you know, personal connections, not just, you know, the industry, but also creatively. And one of the things, you know, I've worked a bit with in publishing as well, but one of the things that, you know, a lot of Nordic publishing companies, especially some that's been there for a long time, they create this illusion that now we set up, you know, camps where we write to briefs and then we do those placements, like they rarely get placed. I'm sure it is. It is really the personal connection between a songwriter, producer, an artist and the manager, whatever representation that really opens the doors, in my opinion, that's sort of what I see also. But I guess that's what you're saying. Yeah, and like same with like, I think we have so much to learn from the Nordics, like that initial conference that I was talking about called Oscar Music Expo. Like we took 10 Americans from Disney. We took them from Warner. We took them from all these places and flew them over to Oslo to see what was happening, set up a camp in Oslo with these A&Rs and these people, these decision makers, which was also like another way of doing it. Like we were just bringing people over and showing what was happening. The Nordics were like, this is so cool. Like you have to see what's happening here.

Jakob Wredstrøm

rather than like them coming to LA. So I mean like vice versa, I just think like the face-to-face meetings are really important. Yeah, that makes sense. And you know, I've been a lot in LA. You know, I had a couple of kids recently and having another one, I've been busy. And so I haven't been there as much, but one of the things that I really experienced when I went there is like really doors are open when you are there. Definitely. I also had a publishing company that started before the pandemic, but it was sort of at least the LA activities, so pretty much crushed during it. But yeah, it's just really interesting what happens when you're there, and especially if you get networking and connecting. That's it. But what is the future for your management? Do you guys manage management? What's going to happen? What are you focusing on? Yeah, thank you for asking. Yeah, we're focused on like some big things next year. Hopefully, getting a bigger space with some more studios. and being able to basically create like these song camps that we've been doing pretty frequently. So we've been doing, which I'm sure as you know, like putting on a song camp, specifically writing for a specific, you know, sync agency or something like that. It costs a lot of money. So doing those regularly, but doing those in a specific space that would be dedicated for that would be amazing. Also just having some sort of like more community building incubator for lack of a better word with other managers and things like that in like a bigger home space. So that's one thing that we're working on. Obviously traditional management, just making sure our clients are having the best years. A lot of them are really seeing albums and just like tour schedules and just making sure that everybody is like really aligned with what they want to do and where they see themselves. So it's not just like a song after song after song. Like we're working towards a career and goals so that like people disposable essentially. Um, working on those three to five year goals and you know, just, uh, making a lot of things happen on the production side, we have like a feature film coming out, um, so that's kind of cool. Obviously we're going to help with the music for that. So yeah, it's just a lot of really cool things happening next year. Um, lots of conferences, lots of showcases. So catch me at South by catch me at EuroSonic. Absolutely. Yeah. That's great. Um.

Jakob Wredstrøm

You know, management is a part of the music industry that I previously have known too little about. Well, in theory, I've known a lot because obviously it's sort of a mixture of everything. But something I'm deep diving a bit more into. And I think it's also, let's say, it's a fairly complex thing. So if you were to give any advice for young entrepreneurs that's really interested in the management side, how what would you say to them? How to approach having a career as a manager? Yeah, I mean, this is super big, like anybody could do it. You see like just like people who have never done anything in music, managing their best friend and like blowing up. Like, you know, it's not rocket science for the lack of better word, but like how you do business is rocket science. Like I am totally not afraid to burn bridges. Like people like never burn bridges. The world is too small. Like burn the bridge. If it's not working out, torch it. Like you don't need to be working with people who do not do good business. So. That's my first advice. Like don't be afraid to burn bridges. Like obviously be great to everybody in the industry. You'll see them again, but like they're gonna know what they did. The other thing is, Let people know what you're doing. I think I struggle with this too, and I know in the Nordic Sjantarloven, in Norway, it's hard to let people know what you're doing. But that's half of being a manager is like, hey, my client's performing at this showcase, we'd love for you to attend. Hey, I don't know if you heard it, but my client just put out this single. Hey, I don't know if you heard about it, but we're doing this music video shoot and we'd love to invite industry to the mixer afterwards to watch the music video, blah, whatever it is. Again, like I don't do this 100% either, but like letting people know, hey, I'm speaking at this conference. Hey, I just did this podcast. Blah, but you know, whatever it is, it just helps with getting the word out there. And like that's just free publicity. So I'd say like when you do start to curate your network of people that you're working with, really keep in touch with people.

Jakob Wredstrøm

I think one of the coolest things about the pandemic is like you were able to get in touch with anybody. Like I was talking with the head of like Republic Records and the head of like all these people that I like never thought I could get on the phone. I would just send a cold email. What else are they doing? They're like, you know, sitting there. So we get on Zooms and it was like crazy. I was like, how am I talking to you? Like this is absurd. But I still think people are in that mentality of like, if you come at it from a learning perspective, like even when I need something, I come out of it like, hey, I'd love to get your advice. Hey, I'd love to, you know, this is what I'm thinking, but I'd love to get a second opinion on it. What I really need is this, and this, but like I come out of it as a learning opportunity. And like, if you come at it that way, it's gonna be a lot better. But I also think from the antelope and thing, like definitely stand your ground. Like if you are confident in something, don't let somebody, you know, sway your opinion because they have more experience. Like go with your gut. Half the time it's right. So, and learn to trust your gut. Like I think that's when I was like just starting out in management, like, you know, if a different manager would tell me something, I'd like listen to them. But even though I'd be like, ah, is that right? Like, is that really right? So yeah, little three pieces. So like trust your gut, burn the bridges if you need to burn the bridges, and also let people know what the heck you're doing and what your artists are doing all the time. Yeah. I think that's amazing advice and I got very inspired talking to you and you have such a great energy. So I guess that's also a really big thing when you're a manager that you need to be, let's say, call it likeable. You definitely are likeable. But I really appreciated this talk. It's sort of just to touch bases on a few different things on a high level, but I really hope people will check you out on what you're doing. Also you know... We're not going to talk about it. I found like some cool things you're also doing. We haven't talked about like Do Less Club and there's a really interesting initiatives and things you're doing. So it's just very interesting. Um, but thank you so much for being on the podcast. Uh, thank you for, for taking your time. And I really hope also on a note, you know, I know I'm a male saying this, but I really hope that opportunities for females in industry, uh, are, are increasing and, and there's doing something about it and, and just, you know, having

Jakob Wredstrøm

people like you that's really taking the leap and standing out for the crowd and ready to burn bridges, I think is super important for us to learn more about what is actually needed to progress as an industry. Yeah. But thank you. Yeah, thank you. This was so much fun. Thank you so much for having me. And like these questions were so great. I'm doing a podcast in a second, so this is good. Hopefully I'm getting better. Like it's, it's a, it's, it's a really cool journey doing this podcast. I, again, you know, I also get to talk with a lot of cool people. But we'll probably talk soon. I think I'm really interested in what you do and hopefully I can sort of you know be a part of what you do at one point in some point of life because I really want to. Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. Great. Talk soon. Yes. Thanks.