SURF Brings Power Back To Music Makers

Jakob Wredstrøm

I think I thought it was going to be a little easier. Um, I don't know. I thought it was just like, oh, you know, the platform is going to be made. Everyone's just going to like line up to come in and I'm going to find my, my teammates, you know, you know. Surf, what an interesting company and what an interesting man. As a person with background in publishing and songwriting production management, this is one of the most interesting and intriguing products I've seen for a while. I think you're going to like this one. Ken is amazing. I had so much fun. Hey guys, and welcome back to Sound Connections Podcast. The guest today is a really interesting person. It's the first time I've done it in Asia. It is Ken. Welcome. I can't where you located. I'm based out of Tokyo right now. Yeah. I, I've been in the search for interesting startups and founders in the music industry for a while and sort of figuring out what is interesting. And, um, I got suggested to look at surf and first I looked at a platform like, wow, this is actually something I know about it's music production is publishing one of the things that I come from, but you guys have a very interesting twist on what it means to be creative and pairing it with the industry. Could you maybe in a minute explain to me what is Surf? Well, Surf is a B2B platform that connects anybody who makes music to music buyers directly. So it could be record labels, publishers, managements or whatnot. We connect basically the industry, we connect creators together to create collaboration. It's all about connecting and having a transparent. platform for the next generation of creators. Mm. Well, that was definitely under a minute. That's really great. But, you know, to do this, we need to know a bit about you. Because, you know, you just don't start that kind of company that needs to be a lot of history and understanding of the industry. So could you walk us through, how did you get into music? Well, you know, I've been playing music all my life since I was seven. Started piano at eight. I started guitar. And then at 10 years old, I started playing the saxophone.

Jakob Wredstrøm

And in college, I ended up doing economics with jazz performance too as my majors. And yeah, and after graduation from college, I went into Sony Music in New York and I worked at the studio. And I was a general assistant in New York at Sony Music Studios. And I was around a lot of music. And as I was working with a lot of different people, I was like, you know, I could do this too. Like I'd never tried making music, but just the hunch. And so, you know, the next, uh, I think I worked there for about a year. And then I went to one of the vice president's office, knocked on his door. Of course, of course he didn't know who I was. And I was like, I'm not happy being an assistant. I want to make music. And obviously the response was, you know, that you could be replaced in a second. I'm like, I know that, you know, but I really. just hear me out. I want to really change the Japanese music industry. I think I have a lot to bring, you know, just give me a shot and let me make, let me, let me have some studio time and let me make three songs in one month and let me go pitch it in Japan. And so that's how it kind of started. And I made three songs in one month, um, went to Japan, um, made a bunch of cold calls to the record labels and whatnot. And, um, Yeah, then Universal Music offered me an artist deal, and I wanted to be a producer, but I was like, you know what the heck, try it out, so I signed with Universal Music. And while I was making my album, they were like, would you like to make music for other artists too? And I was like, that was my main purpose, right? For shopping my songs. And so I started writing. They took me to this show, and this girl named Ai was singing in Shibuya. in Tokyo and they're like what do you think of her would you like to write for her I was like sure and then yeah then I started writing for her and the first song that I released it won um one of the MTV awards in Japan and from there you know uh the rest is history I've been making music for the past 20 years or so. Wow yeah so you really come from the creative side and from creating music but obviously there's also a leap from doing that to becoming a founder.

Jakob Wredstrøm

So what was it around that journey of being producer that led you to maybe find a problem or something, say, I wanna jump into being a founder in the music tech space? Well, I never wanted to be a founder, but I really wanted to find solutions with problems that I was actually experiencing as a music producer. And I was signed to a very big management company for many years. And when I left them, I realized that like, wait, how do I get new clients to work with? Like the usual people will call me, so I was working with the same people, the same A&R's directors and whatnot, but how do I meet new record label, you know, A&R's, how do I meet new artists, especially being locked up in the studio all day making music? And I was like, won't it be great if I could just have a platform where I could just start uploading all the new music that I make and record labels from around the world could just pick and choose whenever they want. And... that simple concept we built out SurfMusic, which is essentially a B2B platform that connects creators with the buyers. Another problem I was having was finding other people to collaborate with because I was playing a lot of the music by myself and I had my band and whatnot and we made music together. Really finding another producer was... I didn't know any other producers that I could collaborate with or bounce ideas off around with. I didn't know other instrumentalists, for example, if I needed drums done. I had my drummer in my band, but I didn't know anybody else. So I was like, how do I meet people in this industry? And so really, that was one problem on the creator side that I experienced. I also worked as a director at Universal Music for a while, really discovering new talent, finding, getting handed a pile of CDs, like listen to all this and go find a hit. Like all this, like, you know, trying to discover and find new music for artists was so difficult. Especially, you know, you listen to 300 CDs just for 15 seconds each. It's hours and hours and hours.

Jakob Wredstrøm

I was like, there must be a more efficient way of doing this. And so all these different problems that I experienced in the industry from, you know, the creator side and also the buyer side, plus like, you know, with the input of our team, we're a 14-person team from different pillars of the industry, some are from publishing, management, on the tech side and whatnot. But, you know, we all realized that there were a lot of inefficiencies in the industry and you know, surf music. was the solution to this. And I never really thought of, oh, I wanted to be, you know, a founder or a, you know, a CEO of a tech company. I never really thought of it. I mean, pretty much, you know, once we had our beta version done, it was like what I kind of envisioned it to be. But then when I started talking to my advisors about it, they're like, all right, so how are you going to monetize? I was like, I don't know. Like, it was not a business. But even getting to a place where you can say you have something beta version and you have advisors, there must have happened some steps before that. Yeah, yeah. So I had people around me that I respected who were very successful in the business field, not in the music industry necessarily, but I was like, I have this idea and I was trying to get funding for it. And obviously, them being very, very business minded and not understanding the industry, they're like, this doesn't seem like a business. It's not scalable. It's, you know, how are you going to monetize? How is this sustainable? And, you know, all these questions start to arouse and arise. And, you know, I think, you know, after the product was, you know, in its beta version and we started, you know, proving our concept and, you know, we had a proof of concept beta version and we started placing songs on it, you know, then people were like, oh, wait. this is actually kind of working. So how do we make, you know, how do we make this sustainable? It wasn't really, oh, I want, we want to be billionaires and this and that or anything like that. It was more about how do we keep this going and how do we keep fair and how do we, you know, in the beginning we had to just, just to sustain it. There was no business model. So any song that was placed, we take a little percentage, you know, from the songs that we place. But then, you know, that really

Jakob Wredstrøm

Defies the whole purpose of what we're trying to do and really trying to empower creators. Yeah. As a creator myself, you know, I don't want to go through a middleman to get my song to someone else where they, you know, raise the price or take the cut of it. And once it's placed, they take another cut. And you know, this is something that goes on in the industry even today. And I think our goal is really to, um, you know, if you would, you know, cut out the middleman and get the song directly to the buyer so that the creator could retain as much as they possibly can. So now you've mentioned me and us and ours a couple of times. So in between you having this idea, you have influential friends that know something about businesses. This is, you know, they don't really know if we believe that. Till you have this platform where you can upload the first songs. What happened? Did you find a partner? Did you get money? Like what happened? So I was actually working. When I first started this, I helped out with another startup. And there I met this friend there. And then we were just bouncing ideas off of it. We created this deck. And that was kind of like work. But it took a while. It was just like a weekend project almost, right? And then. Our Chief Strategy Officer right now, Taka, is one of my best friends. When I brought this to him, I was like, you know, here's my idea. And he was like, OK, so let's try and make this work. And he's like, you know, we have to create a beta version. I was like, OK, great. I don't know any programmers. But he knew somebody that worked in Sony Electronics, and he was one of the head of R&D there. And he connected me with them and Edith San, who is also a shareholder, he used to be our CTO, but he built this beta version in about three to four months just by himself. And it was very, very simple, just being able to upload your songs and on the buyer's side, being able to see the songs and listen to the songs. And it was just, this is kind of like the flow of how the beginning of it.

Jakob Wredstrøm

And then from there, we're like, okay, now we have a beta version, let's go get some investments. So, you know, we went, you know, knocking on doors and talking about, you know, this platform. And one of the people that I went to talk to was, you know, he's the chairman of Fuji Pacific, who is Mr. Asazuma-san. And when I told him this idea, he was like, Can you build this just for Fuji Pacific? And I was like, hmm. And he's like, okay, I take that as a no. And he was like, this will revolutionize the music industry. And I definitely wanna be a part of it. So, Fuji Pacific was our first investor actually, one of the biggest publishers in the world saw value in it and the invested. And then we went knocking on more doors and then we had. a publicly listed company called Meekable Infonoid, invest into us. And from there, we're able to start developing the version that we have right now and really team up with the young astronauts based out of Canada and LA. And they really, Tyler Savery, who's our CTO right now, he rebuilt the system from ground up. And now we have surf music and it is like a complete ecosystem. It's in my eyes, like it's unbelievable. It's helped me. It's helped me meet so many different producers. I made so many songs on Sir, just by meeting people. I've played several songs myself. You know, it's just it was it's been it's been an interesting ride. But I think, you know, everything does happen for a reason. And, you know, It hasn't always been smooth sailing always, you know, like in like any startup, but you know, I believe that we can overcome whatever, you know, that comes in front of us and with the team that we have right now, we're like a family, you know. Yeah. Everyone is like super tight, like no one's a yes man and whatever I say, people just don't tell me yes. They say no, which I love. And that's what really like, you know.

Jakob Wredstrøm

Makes the product even better. And I think, you know, but at the end of the day, it's, it's not what we say, the surf team says what this product should be, but it's what our users say. So we're very focused on, on hearing the feedback of people using our platform. And you know, we, we like to say that we're creating the dream platform for creators and the dream platform for buyers. Like the login is completely different. It's like a different animal. Like, You know, the creator side is very focused on collaboration, community building and education is what our three focal points are. And for the buyer side, we created more like a Microsoft office for the industry, like a business tool where, you know, as, as an A&R, when I was A&Ring too, like finding that song, we, you know, what it You have a reference in your head, but you cannot find that song where you ask people to give you songs like this and they never give you songs like that. And you have to still listen to hundreds and hundreds. That was frustrating. So we implemented AI in it where you could just cut and paste the YouTube link now of a song you wanted to sound like. System takes 110 data points from it and then finds the closest matching song in the marketplace. and also on that A&R's computer from the songs they've collected over the years that didn't make the cut. So to record labels too, this is such a time saver and it's really, really allowing them to focus on being creative rather than going through all the mundane emailing back and forth waiting for tracks to come. you know, getting in the zip file, unzipping it, putting in an iTunes, putting it into a playlist, filtering it down and then, you know, zipping that back out again and then to share with their teammates and whatnot. It was just, it was a nightmare. And, you know, surprisingly until we really came up with this solution and thank God, you know, record labels are signing up and paying to use us. Um, this has made their lives a lot easier. And, you know, it's, it's just.

Jakob Wredstrøm

It's a discovery process for us too. We are learning as we go. Because no one's really done what we're trying to do and there's no right answer. When I researched for this interview and researched about you, one of the things that you've said in a couple of interviews is that you weren't really that good at selling yourself. And that might be because in your studio. So there must have been a transition, right? Because I'm sitting in front of a man now that's very passionate about his cause and knows how to talk about it. So the transition in you as a person from being in the studio to where you are now, how did you experience that personal transition? Oh, with a lot of failure, I'd say. In the beginning, you know, I really had a hard time conveying all this information and staying focused, but I think, you know, doing it, you know, hundreds of times and pitching it and making sure that, you know, I'm not getting too sidetracked or anything. It's almost like I had to reinvent myself. And as a music producer, yes, I've been doing it for 20 years. But, you know, if a music producer was almost like, you know, an athlete, I think I moved myself more towards the coaching side. So becoming a coach and being able to, you know, speak, you know, because, you know, I have had experience. Not saying that my experience is like everything. But you know, I do have insights that and that I can share with the next generation the younger generations of Producers and once I realized that you know, I was really able to make music my hobby again If you want to put it and really focus my energies on being the coach and trying to build something that's that brings value to the athletes if you honor put in that way Yeah, that's a great picture. And I love using sports as well because it's making art amusing in general can seem really hard to understand because it's air waves. So using an athlete or sports analogy often works. But you mentioned, you know, trying a hundred times and failing. Could you go a bit more in specific? What was it that you failed with that hurt the most and then made you change and become better?

Jakob Wredstrøm

Well, you know, I mean, in terms of. I don't know, I mean, for me, it was just more about being more comfortable, seeing myself on a podcast, for example, like I was never like in front of the camera. I really didn't like the camera. I hate hearing my voice, but like really like, yeah, listening through it, you know, listening, listening back to these. These kind of like interviews and whatnot. And I try to, I cringe, but I still do try to listen to them, but I critique myself and, you know, it's just being very comfortable and learning to be confident. And, you know, with, you know, our users, you know, experiencing and using Surf and all the compliments that we get, you know, it really built my confidence too. It's like, oh, we are onto something. We're building something that's actually helping people. In the beginning, it was just kind of like, this is just an idea, this might help you. But I think a big turning point was this year in March when we were selected as at South by Southwest as the finals four for the Innovation Awards in the media division. I think that's when it really hit me. It was like, wow, it's not only us that's saying this is good. But there's actually people out there that are rooting for us. And that really made me step up as, you know, I guess to the CEO or whatnot to really, you know, wave the flag and lead this crusade, right? Yeah. That makes sense. And, you know, I also come, I have a background in publishing and music production. And when I first looked through your website, I was like, whoa, this exists? Like, you know, I still go on part of a publishing company where we have hundreds of great tracks that are just sort of parked. You know, of course you do manual placements, but you can't really activate that catalog that effectively and, you know, this is one of the tools where you could do that with. So it's very interesting. But what was the transition for the people around you? Because, you know, you're a producer, you've had success, you know, with big names like Earth, Wind and Fire. And there must have been a security in what you did and understanding of who you were with what you did.

Jakob Wredstrøm

And now you're out chasing some almost, you know, in statistically speaking, unrealistic venture. How did your surroundings react to that change? Well, like to be honest with you, when I first came up with the idea, I had friends in the industry, right? And I told them about this idea of what I wanted to do and how I wanted to disrupt the industry. And they were just like, you know, that's, you know, that's a great vision, but that's impossible. When anyone tells me that's impossible or you can't do it, that makes me want to do it more. I guess I'm still a kid, right? Don't do it. It's like, I want to do it. And I think, you know, that was, that was the reaction. It was such, uh, especially doing this on a global scale, not only in a domestic market, but we really want to have presence in every single country that has music, which is pretty much all the countries, right? Um, and you know, everyone told me that, you know, like, That's a great dream, but you know, good luck. But then when, when we came up with this launch version and I went back to the record labels and showed it to them, literally they were like, wow, like I didn't think you could do, we knew none of us thought you could do this, but. You know, you've, you've delivered beyond what you've promised or what your vision was, and I told them, you know, like, this is only maybe 5% of what's. What was what's in my mind right now and obviously we're continuously developing and you know as we as our users give us feedback they're telling us what to build basically like what if there's this kind of functionality what if we could do this and make lives of managers so much easier all that is welcome and we are currently still developing all these features of course you know we have to prioritize on the tech stack, what we build first, but slowly but surely we're getting everything done. Yeah. What about you as a CEO? Because leading a team, leading a company, is there a different for being a music producer? Again, myself, I'm a creative to start with, come from music production by no means as established as you, but that's where I come from. And there's something about...

Jakob Wredstrøm

Creatives that sometimes is very contradicting towards, you know, roles like a CEO where there's a lot of expectations to how you structure things. How do you, how do you navigate that? So you know, I don't like to be honest with you, I see myself as part of the team, not as, you know, the CEO, I whatever I see is right, but I have, I have teammates. You know, and we all have to stand at the same level looking at the same goal to attain the same goal is how I see it. And I welcome criticism, I welcome people to think differently from me, you know, from what I think, but we all talk it through and I think it's very collaborative and that's the best part about, you know, the team we've built and that's what's really created the trust and the bond between. Between the team also. So I don't feel like, you know, all the weights on my shoulder and I have to make sure everything is right and you know, and delegate, delegate. It's not that for me. It's like, I am one of the team, the surf team and we're really pushing this wheel together. Sometimes, you know, people fall off, but they get back up and they still keep pushing. And sometimes I fall off and, you know, I have people covering me and so it's all, you know, without, without the team there really isn't surf. And that's how I really see it. And I value every single member of our team just, you know, at, at the same level. Yeah. And how does the team work? Are you guys digitally present? Like, do you have an office space? How does it work with? So we work remotely, we have share offices like in London and in New York, we have staff in LA, we have staff in Nashville, Korea, and obviously Tokyo. We had an office in Tokyo, but you know, after COVID we realized that we really don't need an office. I mean, nobody was going there. I wasn't even going there.

Jakob Wredstrøm

I wanted to give the flexibility to all my teammates to be able to work from wherever they want. So, you know, they might, some people, you know, were in Hawaii for a month working out of Hawaii, but still, you know, adjusting to the schedule, right? And we do, we basically have a hub where it's me, our COO and our chief creative officer. And our chief strategy officer, we're kind of like the hub, but then we have regional heads in Korea, in US and in Japan. And we have this thing called the SERF summit once a week where everybody gets together and of course, you know, trying to adjust London time, California time, New York time, Tokyo time, it's going to be odd hours, right? And, you know, we do that once a week, but then we also have one-on-ones and also regional meetings. That happened and we have our marketing meeting that we do once a week and we have our PR meeting for our Japanese PR team and our US PR team. So it's like, you know, I mean, I personally, I wake up at 4 a.m. every day, you know, and that every day. Yeah, I get up before I can still talk to London, LA is up, you know, New York's like just finished lunch, you know, it's like. It's, but everyone has to do this. Like my New York team, they stay up till like one, two AM, you know, you know, but they get to sleep in a little longer, you know, but everyone has to be flexible. And, you know, I travel a lot too, and the team travels. So whenever I travel just so I don't disrupt everyone's schedule, I try to adjust to that. That's also like. You know, I mean, it's startup life and you know, it's post COVID startup life. And that's, that's kind of like how the norm is. Right. And I think, you know, people are a lot more, you know, efficient and they're a lot more driven when they're happy. Um, they're happy with their lifestyle, not, you know, in stuck in an office all day, you know, not being able to, you know, get their workout in the morning or whatnot. But I think, you know, like the mental, mental and.

Jakob Wredstrøm

You know, mental happiness is what really keeps us sane, I think. Yeah. Well, that's good, like mental happiness, because, you know, living the startup dream in a very complex industry like the music industry can be extremely wearing and tearing on your, you know, your sanity to some degree. And also, you know, you talked about sports, right? Getting up at four and having the discipline that you're having is also, you know, comparable to being an athlete. But... Yeah. Did you know what you were going into? Did you know how much it was going to take? I think I thought it was going to be a little easier. I don't know. I thought it was just like, oh, you know, the platform is going to be made. Everyone's just going to like line up to come in and, you know, I'm going to find my teammates, you know, as I go along. But it's really, you know, we haven't really hired anybody from like, you know, using any kind of HR service or whatnot. It's all been, you know, like our COO, Jonah Higa, he was an intern at my first startup. And, you know, from there, when we started, when I started Surf, I was like, look, I had this idea. And he was like, Oh my God, this is exactly what I wanted to do. He came on board, then he introduced Justine, who was like an old friend of his from back in school. And she's now our chief creative officer. And then like, it's just an introduction to an introduction. And, you know, that's why I think we're so close. Cause it's not like, you know, oh, I'll hire you. It was more of a, oh, we get along, you know, like, you know, I rather work with people that are more, you know, personable than people that I cannot get along with, but they're great at what they do. Like I think, you know, the dynamic with the whole team is what really is very important and what we value at surf. That makes sense. So when you say that, you know, you probably imagined it was easier. Like, do you also to some extent miss the good old days with just producing music? I mean, the good old days were great, but like, you know, that was also a lot of hours. Like, I would, you know, obviously I wouldn't start as early, but I get up at maybe 10. You know, my first session will start at like, you know, right after lunch.

Jakob Wredstrøm

On one, but then, you know, this is back in like 2003, 2004, this is when you partied all night while you recorded in the studio, right? So I was like, I'd lock my, we'd lock out the studios and speed up for like three days and I had my own studio here in Tokyo, which, you know, had bedrooms and showers too, so I didn't have to go home. So I basically lived at the studio and I just went back to my apartment to grab a bunch of clothes. And then I went back to the studio. But I think, you know, marriage, getting married and, you know, having a kid, it's it really. May put things into perspective. And I realized that I cannot live that like rock star life anymore. And just, you know, and like I needed to get my get my life together and really focus. And I think there was a lot of time wasted as a producer, just me probably excessive drinking and just having too much fun making music. But I've done that and I don't really miss it. Then of course, I still make music. So there are times where there are long nights in the studios, but it's not like every night or every day. And I was working seven days a week. And because it didn't feel like work, you know, so like, where do you draw the line? It's like, I'm making music. Yeah. No, that's great. I'm curious about one thing. You know, when, when I look at your Instagram, uh, you know, and I want to talk with you now, you have a huge smile. Like you have a lot of charisma. Do you believe that is, that is something you use in order to also have success as an entrepreneur, like that, that energy you're presenting? I don't know, I mean my PR team calls it Kennergy. But I should make it a drink, right? But I don't know, I just, when you're passionate about something, I think anybody, you know, also Jacob, whatever you're passionate with, when you're talking about what you love, it's just obviously the energy comes out. It's not like I'm trying to be smiley and this and that, but.

Jakob Wredstrøm

You know, I can say I'm truly happy with what I'm doing and, you know, I'm excited to get up in the morning, you know, and, you know, really, because I don't know what's happening today, what's happening tomorrow, like so many different things happen and so many surprises, you know, a problem here, but a good thing there. And it just like, it's just really exciting. And, you know, I just like to, I just like to live in the moment. If you want. In that moment, if I'm smiling, I'm smiling, you know? But, you know, I do sleep, and when I sleep, I'm very quiet. That makes sense. So what is the future for Surf? What's going on, and what does, you know, you mentioned that 5% does, of course, back in the days is what you had envisioned for it to be. Maybe you've come a bit further, maybe you're 20% now. But like, what is the remaining percentage that you want Surf to be? What can we expect from you guys in the future? Well, we really want to build a community, right? And right now, we've opened subscriptions up and people are subscribing, but I think to create a community will take time. And figuring out what each creator needs, it will be different from another creator. And I think just trying to figure out, solve the problems, but still really build a tight knit community that can really collaborate and rely on each other to make great music. But at the same time, you know, having an outlet for that, which is the global buyers. Like, you know, really we want to sign up every single record label in the world to be looking for music for their new artists. Because we only do exclusive placements right now. We don't do any sync. It's all for exclusive placements for, you know, for first time releases, if you want to put it that way. But, you know, we really want to build an ecosystem where we can be able to place music in India. We can be able to place music in Malaysia. We can be able to place in Thailand, in the States, in the UK, really. But having our AI being able to basically start pitching the creator's music while they're sleeping to different regions, giving analytics to tell creators what their percentage of placing.

Jakob Wredstrøm

In the UK versus Japan. Which percentage, which region should you be focusing on with the style that you're making? Being able to predict trends of, you know, what kids are making, in which region, at what age group. And being really able to understand that, to really, you know, to really use that to make it useful information for people to collaborate and to find collaborators. People that are like you, people that you will get along with sonically too, to be able to collaborate with. And it's just this whole ecosystem that we really want to build and, um, in this community. And I think that is, um, you know, the future of surf. Yeah. That's really interesting. I would generally, generally describe myself as a startup skeptic, but when you're listening to you talk, it really, really resonates with me. And, you know, I think there's a lot of app and platforms out there that has been focused on community. But hasn't provided a big enough financial incentive to create that community. Because community in itself is important, but it's also your job, right? So if you can't pair those things together, it seems sort of an unsustainable journey. And that's what you guys are doing, providing the financial incentive and also the community. One of the things that I really noticed, what you said around 15 minutes ago, is that you were sitting alone in your studio and you didn't really know who to connect with. Is the community aspects you developing also reaction to your lack of community in the past? Yeah, it totally is. Because I had a Facebook account, but I wasn't active. I didn't even have Instagram back then. I wasn't on social media. I turned on all interviews that I was offered by magazines or whatnot. Because I just didn't, I did one interview, maybe my first release. But everything else, I'm like, nah, I don't want to. I just want to stay in the back. I know I don't want to be known and I think you know getting married to my wife and she was someone that you know was out in the public and whatnot and seeing her do that. I think I was kind of dragged into that and from there I we both open Instagram started Instagram together and you know, I really just started I just wanted to be myself right and

Jakob Wredstrøm

I was just posting funny videos of her and she's screaming at me, chasing me, being like, don't post that, but me posting it, but showing her real self. It's not like the public figure, or like, I just wanna show the beautiful life. It's like, no, I wanna be able to show my true self. And I think being able to do that really made me think, like what... what if I could connect with producers, other producers too, you know, not based on, oh, I have a bigger discography than yours, but rather, you know, that song that you made yet, like yesterday, I want to work with you on that. And that's truly what Surf Sessions that we just launched is about. It's about creators being able to post music up that they're working on and ask for people to collaborate with them. And people, you know, applying to collaborate and that creator who created that song gets getting to choose who's in their team. And once they choose their team for that song, now they have a drive that's just dedicated for that one song. So no sending Dropbox back and forth. All your files are consolidated and next to each audio file, you could type, you know, whatever comments you want, and that's auto translated to any language that you set your system to. There's a group chat now, so now you can collaborate with people in Korea that only speak Korean, but like people in the States and also like Sweden who you don't even speak the same language, but on the group chat, it only shows up as your language, whatever you're typing, it's auto-translated real-time. So we're really trying to create kind of like, you know, the ultimate collaboration tool, but almost also, you know, like... the dropbox for musicians, if you will. And, you know, NREI is really, you know, it's alerting, um, the different, um, catalogs that are being uploaded. So it'll automatically be, be able to recommend, oh, you should work with this producer out in Israel. Cause you guys have similar music and you would have never, you know, and once we start recommending and you guys start chatting in whatever language you do.

Jakob Wredstrøm

collaborations can be born. And you know, I say, you know, people don't like it when I say this sometimes, but like, I'd say almost like it's the Tinder of the music industry. I want it, right? You're getting recommended to work with people. You check out their sound or their songs if you like it. Then you become friends and then you start collaborating. And then you find a place where, you know, your baby that you created is gonna live on and be released. I think, you know, That is the beauty of the whole platform. One of the things I think about when you talk is, you know, community is one word. One of the, one of the alternative words also to use is network. And that's sort of, you know, been a very consistent thing in this podcast so far is almost every single conversation about opportunities is surrounded about network in the music industry and, you know, for, for music business professionals, that's super important, but also for creators, because like yourself, you describe you sitting in your in your bedroom, or not your bedroom, your studio, and you had, you know, usual clients, but how do you gain new ones? And a lot of opportunities in a lot of careers is sort of like freak accidents. So I'd met this person that then opened the door, which means a lot of the boundaries for having success in the industry when you are talented is network. And you know, and network, I can use a synonym for the community using, because it can also really address the problem about How do I know people? How do they know me? And community is a beautiful word to describe it, but it's also network. And I think that's really interesting about your platform as well. Yeah, and you know, like, you know, network to me is, you know, it's like acquaintances versus community to me is more like friends. That makes sense. And I think, you know, the one thing, if I were to tell my younger self back then, it would be like, why weren't you trying to get out of your comfort zone and meet people that you really didn't know? Because I was hanging out with the same like four or five guys every single night getting drunk and I didn't want to meet anyone else. I was just like with the crew right? And I was just like I didn't want to get out of my comfort zone but now being in this position I am always out of my comfort zone but that's really made me I think

Jakob Wredstrøm

been able to grow as a person too, and being able to network and meet great people with great minds and great visions. That inspires me. I think I try to learn and absorb as much as I can. The day I stop learning and the day I stop dreaming is the day I start dying, is how I see it. Yeah. I'm constantly trying to become a better me than I was yesterday. That makes sense. Yeah. This has been extremely informative about surf and your journey. This podcast is also very, you know, focused about the next entrepreneurs that are not yet in the industry or trying to figure out a way based on your experiences. Do you have advice that you can give to young entrepreneurs that's trying to make a difference like you're making now? Well, you know, first of, first and foremost, it's like, you know, create something, start something that you truly believe in. And if it's, you know, just making money, you know, once you stop, you know, if you don't even make money, you will quit. You know, but if you do it for a greater cause, that will make you fight for it no matter who tells you it's, you know, impossible or whatnot. I think really finding that one thing that you would really die for, that we will fight for. No matter what anybody says, you would want to prove them wrong too. And I think, you know, making that into a business is, is like the first step. And the second step is really you have to persevere and you have to be, you know, you're going to get the door shut on you so many times. And, you know, it's very cliche in the startup world, you know, it's like never give up, you know, but it is true. Until I experienced it, I was like, I can't be that bad, but it's pretty bad. You know, but the great thing about it is the friends and the team that you build along the way who become your family. And, you know, and really, I feel so blessed and I feel, you know, super lucky to be, you know, doing what I do to meeting, to be working with. And.

Jakob Wredstrøm

the people that I work with. And, you know, I always just, you know, I never forget to feel grateful, you know, and never on a high horse, like, oh, you know, we did this, we did that, you know, there's nothing about that. It's always remembering, especially in being part Japanese, you know, you know, like in Japanese you say, Kansha no Kimochi, which means like, you know, being thankful, like, don't forget to say thank you. Like really like appreciating things that are around you and not taking it for granted. And I think those values that were instilling me also, you know, is one thing that really helped me out in being an entrepreneur. It's very inspiring. Maybe one last question is, you know, you talk a lot about the family, the community you've built with Surf. And you know, drawing parallels to what you said with your friends back in the day, is that, you know, what you've exchanged? Because you... You know, you've changed a lot, but it also seems like you haven't changed with that aspect. You have a core amount of people that you put a lot of love in. Is that what happened now? You've created this new work-related family. I think I just grew it. I mean, the people that, you know, when I first started surf, they're still with me. And, you know, I'd say during my partying days, right, you know, the people that I just see at, you know, the clubs or whatnot. Like I don't hang out with a lot of them anymore, but I think really just surrounding myself with people that I admire, I respect, I can learn from too and I could grow with, I think was really the key for me to building and to be able to build the teamwork that we have right now. Well, with that, I think that's a great comment to add the podcast on. Thank you for being a guest. Super inspiring. I'm definitely going to use your service. Uh, it's, it's really, really interesting. Yeah. Please let me know. We can help you set it up too, if you need help. Well, uh, it's a bit late for you, so I'll let you be, uh, alone with the kids and with the wife and enjoy the evening. And thank you very much. All right. Thank you so much, Jacob. Cool. Pleasure.