AI Musicpreneur: Empowering Musicians with AI

This is not about getting the streams count up. This is about getting visibility for your story on social media. For the average indie artists, it's a lot harder. You're on social media, do these TikToks because you think you're going to go viral. And then you don't have any time anymore for making music. But once you understand how to use AI tools, you can buy back time. So now you've got the AI, you can automate the content creation process. Listen, I think if you're aware of these tools and you're putting in the time, you can do anything you want.

Chris is also called AI Music Printer. And we had a great talk about AI tools, what it means to be a musician, creative, entrepreneur with AI tools within music. And really go deep into understanding what's happening and how we can use it in our space. This is a really practical talk and I loved it. Hey guys, and welcome to the Sound Connections podcast. Today is an episode I've been looking forward to. Chris, welcome. Thanks for having me, Jacob. You go by the name AI Music Printer.

And I actually wrote this on a post, I think, not too long ago, that you're the only LinkedIn person I actually have a sort of alarm notification on. So that's a big kudos to you. But if I were in my own words to describe why I do that is because you have some very, very interesting posts about the movements in AI, but especially with relationship to music. So before we dive into what you have to say, could you help the audience understand who you are and what you do?

Absolutely. So hey there, I'm Chris Wiedewild, also known as the AI Music Printer. My mission is to help artists, creators, and music professionals navigate the world of AI and the music industry. And I'm all about empowering creators to leverage AI tools to create and promote music. Not for the sake of using AI, but through identifying pain points they have in their workflow. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's sort of what we're going to talk a lot about today, pain points, how AI can solve it.

I assume we're going to talk a lot about ethics. And well, we'll probably go all over the place. But one of the things that I love about your post is they're very practical. And of course, there's a lot of philosophy associated to it between the lines also. But I would love us to be practical and philosophical today about AI. But Chris, I need to understand what happened in your career that made you come to doing what you do now. Okay, let me take you through it.

So it's basically a three-step process, it was for me. So my journey from being a musician to becoming the AI Music Printer, it's been quite the rollercoaster ride, I would say. I started out, like many do in music, a passionate musician with big dreams and a lot of determination. But, hey, let me tell you, the road wasn't always smooth at all. I mean, I remember those early days where I was geeking around and pouring my heart into music and hoping for that big break.

And I had a lot of great memories touring the US, playing with artists like Beth Hart. But, you know, those are only moments and numbers at the end of the day. So, you know, as time went on, I started facing a lot of real challenges. And the music industry can be really tough. And there were a lot of moments where I'd look at my bank account after a gig and think, is this really sustainable, what I'm doing? And at the end of the day, it's not just about money, though. You know, there were a lot of times when, you know, I had self-doubt creep in and I'd wonder if I'm really cut for this.

But the thing is, like, there's struggles. And as tough as they were, they also shaped me in a way. They gave me deep personal understanding of what artists actually go through. And that understanding, it's really been invaluable in my current role. So now, do you want me to take you through the story? Like, this is the second part. Here's where my story took an interesting turn. I ended up taking a job at Valtek, which is a digital agency, and I was doing something completely different.

Worked in product strategy for different brands like Porsche, Lufthansa, and L'Oreal. And at first, I thought I was kind of stepping away from my music dreams. But looking back, I think it was a really crucial part of my journey. And it made sense, working in the corporate world, especially like at a tech-focused company like Valtek, it kind of opened my eyes for, you know, the potential that technology also has. But I got to be honest, there were a lot of times in my corporate stint where when I felt like I was betraying sort of like my artistic side, and I'd be sitting in meetings talking about digital strategies, and a part of me would be thinking like, what happened to that musician who wanted to change the world with his songs?

And it was a constant internal struggle that I had. But then, like suddenly something clicked, and I started to see how the tech world and the music world actually intersect in amazing ways. And I began to realize that, you know, my combination of musical background and tech knowledge could maybe make a difference. And that's when the idea of the AI music printer actually started to take shape. The transition wasn't easy, I'll tell you, but like leaving a stable corporate job and diving back into the, you know, I would call it unpredictable world of music and tech entrepreneurship.

But there were plenty of sleepers' nights wondering if I was actually making the right choice and doing that. But I kind of knew in my gut that this is what I needed to do. So I started researching and networking and experimenting with AI and using it. And let me tell you, there was a whole new world that actually opened up. So I saw how AI could actually help artists overcome some of the very challenges I'd faced in my early days and tools for music promotion, creation, and even business management. It was all there just waiting to be harnessed, sort of.

And that's when I thought I kind of found my calling, you know, my passion for technology to help other artists navigate the space. And that's kind of how the AI music printer was born. It's, you know, looking back, I think it's, I can see like how every part of my journey, the struggles, the doubts, and the detours, they all let me where I'm now. And it's funny how life works sometimes, that those challenges, you know, that once seemed like roadblocks, they turned out to be the very things actually that prepared you for this role.

So we're now bridging the gap between AI and the music world. That is so interesting. And I think we're going to have some really interesting talks about some tools and approaches today. Like one of the things that I've been, I haven't really said that on camera, but I've really been feeling like an imposter lately for the reason that the work that I do within AI, several things, like we launched, as far as we can tell and the media can tell, we're the first live AI podcast host.

And when we released that, you know, while doing our research with AI Jake, who not just a newsreader guy, but the guy that actually speaks with me in interviews, it was all available tools that, you know, are just paired together in different API settings. And even though that might sound complicated for like people who don't work within tech to any degree or AI, it's really, really simple. But still, it was the first AI podcast host globally, as far as we can tell.

And therefore, I feel like an imposter because like, well, that was kind of easy and it didn't really cost anything. But that brings me back to actually the philosophical part that it's really not about the access. It's about understanding the systems, the processes and how to use it. And that's sort of what you're doing. I didn't try to promote myself there. I'm just trying to come up with a point that all these tools out there are accessible, but it does not mean that you know how to apply it to yourself in a way to extend who you are, what you want to say.

And I think that's where your work is really interesting, is trying to give those tools. It's really funny that you're actually saying that because I feel the same way sometimes as an imposter. So when I, maybe that's my background in product management and digital marketing, but when I started writing these prompts and put together this prompt library, which as far as I know, it's the first prompt library for music artists in the world, I felt like this seemed, this seemed too easy for me.

Like, there's something wrong here. What am I missing? And, um, but it's, it's funny. Like, uh, like you said, all of these tools are available. You just have to make sense of how you're applying them. And I mean, there's a lot of pain involved. Uh, you can gain a lot, but there's also a lot of pain involved in the process of making sense of something and then translating that to an actual goal where you're going to go to. So I can. Yeah. And sometimes in, in that logic, uh, let, let me just, um, for the sake of the example I just gave, um, actually explain a bit about AIJ.

So AIJ consists of multiple steps in the process that may, may be a bit boring, but there's something to do with audio and processing and blah, blah. But, but when you've done all the sort of basic stuff, it's basically chat, GBT, um, 11 labs. Uh, and then, you know, we've been using HeyGen for a while. And I didn't really think much of that. Okay. We need to do this newsreader thing, but there was this one program that came out that made the whole thing tied together logically.

And that was, uh, it's called BAPI, uh, which is basically a call center AI. Um, so, and that's the interesting thing about AI tools is like, you might have a system of tools you use and then just one tool come out and makes a whole new meaning to all of them because you can tie them together. Does that make sense? And a hundred percent, that's the beauty of what we're going through right now, but that's also the complexity because in order to understand how to use this in an intuitive way, you really need to listen and see and follow what's happening.

Um, it's too fast. I know we don't speak this much, but, but yeah, but, but how do you stay on top of the game? Because you, I don't know how often you post, but I'll say at least five times a week on LinkedIn at least, uh, with like new updates, information tools. How do you stay ahead? I mean, I did, I did something very similar. I would say three to four years ago when ShedGPT and AI tools for content creation were not around. And I was, I was also very new to posting on LinkedIn.

So the process back then was really a lot different. I think it's becoming, uh, easier now since you have more access to tools that are helping you to create. So creating and trying to stay on top with tools like, I mean, I'm using tools like perplexity, for instance, a lot, uh, gathering information. And just trying to stay, right. It's, it's great. Well, they got, they got a lawsuit now going and in the same way, like Suno, Suno and Udio. So everyone is getting sued.

It's, it's a swing season, it appears. Wait, wait. How, why is perplexity getting sued? I don't get that. So I, I don't know the entire, uh, entire story, but, um, since perplexity is plugging into the internet and it lets you virtually do anything with the data available, you can write complete songs as well as, and access all of the lyrics that are available online and create something new out of that.

So you're, you're kind of accessing, you know, uh, copyrighted material and you're, you're doing your little tweak and a twist on it and create your own, but no one is getting the contribution, basically. Sure. Okay. Sorry. I interrupted you. Yeah. So you use perplexity and sort of to stay ahead and yeah. Perplexity is a big part of, part of the process. I, I mean, I talk to founders every week and, um, luckily enough, also they're nice, nice enough to send over press releases to me and keep me up to date when something new is coming out.

So this obviously has also been very helpful and to prepare things, but, um, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It's, this is a complete solopreneur business and on the side of doing the AI musicpreneur, I also have another job where I do an AI transformation for a marketing agency. So it's, it's not my full-time career that I'm, that I'm doing. I want it to be someday, but, um, right now I'm just living in the moment and my, my goal is just try to provide as much value to artists, professionals out there and, um, make information just easy to access and to absorb.

And, um, thanks, thanks for saying that the information that I put out is helpful because that is kind of testament also to me that the, the type of information and the, the way that I try to present in a format, uh, is, is getting the message across and it's, it's actually helping people to learn about the tools. So that's, that's basically my mission. So I'm happy about that. What is your outlook on AI and especially creation of music?

Um, I have my own thoughts, but I would love to understand how you think about that. So it's a, this is a very, that's a very broad field, right? I mean, we've got, we've got different categories of, um, tools that you can access to augment your workflow. You can use AI music generation tools like Sumo and Udio or Stable Audio and not all of them seem to be ethically trained.

They're suspicious in a way, of course, uh, which we were seeing in, in the last one or two weeks, uh, that it's surfacing that in fact, they've been doing something in the background, which we kind of were, uh, informed about what, you know, we were waiting for the official statement, but these tools, um, I don't, I, I hope they're not gonna, um, replace musicians in a way that, uh, the needle is just dropping. I think we can reverse engineer a lot of the things that are happening now.

And, um, with new technology, I always feel like it's a, it's a generational shift. So the, the kids that are growing up now, um, I don't know, imagine like a 10 year old that is sitting in front of Sumo and Udio and is prompting the music. And this, uh, this guy is like coming up with this rock song and he's like, Hey, this guitar solo is amazing. I wonder if I could play that. So what I'm hoping is they're going to find these songs really amazing and then pick up the guitar.

So in this, in the same way, like me, I sat in front of MTV, like, um, listening to music and absorbing music videos for hours. And, you know, looking at this dude that was playing guitar and I was like, I'll do that one day. And, you know, I want to, I want to be on stage and like, um, I want to express myself. So I think in a, in a, in a way it's gonna, it's gonna, it's, it's not gonna eliminate, uh, the love that we have for handcrafted music. It's, it's gonna find, uh, people are going to find the love for handcrafted music in a different way.

I think. Hmm. I have, um, I have a weird relationship with music. Um, and that is that I, uh, I know a lot about music. Uh, I have been an artist, uh, I have a master's in music, uh, and I'm very good at music, but I try to understand when I say this, I don't particularly care that much about music. What I care about is, is two things. It is the music industry because it intrigues me like crazy.

And then it's the creation process for me, the, the product, I, I am very much a consumer when it comes to listening to music. Um, I appreciate music that my favorite artists are boring, mainstream artists that, you know, doesn't necessarily have much to say. Um, but I'm obsessed with storytelling in the creation process, not the product, which gives me, um, a advantage of being able to be cynical when it comes to trying to explore what the future of music is, um, yeah, it's, it seems weird when I say it, but what I'm trying to say is my journey with AI tools, uh, when it relates to music is that I believe that pretty much everything about how we create music will be changed.

But I also do believe that telling stories, no matter what is a difficult, difficult thing. Uh, and that's not going to change with AI. You know, I'm, I'm very, very good at large language models and I know how difficult it is to still create something of value. The value that it brings just by default is not that exceptional. It's how you use it with the contextual storytelling you have that brings value. And that's how I look at AI and music right now.

It is, it might take away big parts of the craft. And that is sad from a perspective of, there's a lot of people that are just investing their lives into the craft. But music is not going to disappear just because the creation process is going to change. There's still going to be great storytellers, but I'm pretty sure that most of the craft people, which I love and appreciate, um, are going to have a hard time in the future here.

Um, that was a very weird rant, but no, I mean, I hope you understand what I mean. I think the key, I think the key to get your message out and that hasn't changed in music in the last a hundred years. I feel like it's, like you said, it's, it's storytelling and using the power of storytelling to, to get your message across. It's not about, um, and that is harder than ever. You cannot expect to create a following of thousands of people online just by throwing your music on a platform like Spotify, going on a social media platform like LinkedIn or Twitter and saying, listen to my song.

That's not going to cut it. No one will listen to your song. No one cares about your song. First off, because what they care about is connection and connection. You can only get if you're telling an enticing story behind that song. So it's not about selling the music. It's about selling the experience. And, um, those ones that will use AI music or produce AI music or use it to augment their, um, their process, only those ones that also understand the power of storytelling and how they use that music output to amplify it on social media platforms, in their mute, uh, mailing lists, um, I don't know, on TV or whatever on stage.

Those are the ones that are going to be ahead. So it's, it's, it's still like, it's still storytelling that's going to cut. Are you going to make it in the industry or not? It's, it's not going to be decided by the greatest music ever. What do you think will happen with the existing amount of semi-professional professional musicians that are out there? How's their going to, their monetary situation is going to be like in a few years? Um, well, something that I'm seeing now and I'm, I'm basically talking to, um, music artists and some voice actors almost on a weekly basis.

And one of the things that they fear, of course, is the work that they have right now, um, which might be as a session musician or, uh, I don't know, like a voice actor doing audio books, that this might fall away, um, eventually because new tools are coming out. So what I'm, what I'm telling them is, well, it's, it's great while you have these relationships going and some, they will not, uh, they will probably go on. I mean, imagine like someone, um, having worked with the same guy that goes into the studio and plays on the guitar for 30 years, they're not just going to go on audio or whatever other tool and say, give me a guitar riff.

They, they love the guy or the, uh, the girl that is coming into the studio, laying down the guitar tracks. It's, it's relationship based. But once, uh, once those relationships fall away and the technology part takes over them, that's a whole different ball game. So what I'm telling people right now is while you have the business that you've had for a little while, what you need to do is build up your, the traditional way you need to build up your other way, which is monetizing, uh, monetizing your skills and your craft for voice actors that's cloning their voice and monetizing it, uh, putting it on the marketplace because it cannot be at 10 places at the same time.

And for musicians or product producers that could be, uh, to work with, um, providers of large, uh, large language models or AI startups, um, to provide their production style. And then, uh, they get paid every time, uh, their production style is being used when an AI song is being generated. So those are some of the things that I'm seeing that, but that's still, uh, kind of a traditional, uh, transitional phase. Sorry, I got a little bit interrupted here because my, my cat is going a little bit crazy and I know, uh, he wants, he wants some food.

So, but he's has to wait for a little bit more. All good. We are talking about AI tools. We use an AI audio processing tool and it'll, it'll filter it out. So no problem whatsoever. Um, it's, it's interesting because my, my take on it, which, which might be wrong is that the middle class of musicians in not too distant future will be wiped away when it comes to the financial potential, but they do, um, what, what I try to say is the best people, the best musicians have, have come much further than just their craft.

You know, uh, if you, I've been lucky to work in, in the professional, um, music space for, for a while and what I know and what I see consistently is, is the musicians who do the best career wise are the kindest people, or they are the, the ones who, um, tell stories on the instrument beyond their craft. It's not about how they play this thing. It is, it is the expert factor, the same, and answers has it's the charisma, the look, the expression, how they sort of connect and lock with other musicians.

And those will stay, I believe if anything, they'll be, um, they'll be more attractive, but, but the middle section where there's still working towards their craft, they will most likely have less opportunities. And, you know, there's not a lot of financial opportunities in the first place there, which means there's going to be a very, very big gap between, I want to dedicate my life to being a musician or an artist to, to becoming that, you know, the best.

And there's most actually going to be less financial opportunities that are now, which is very little, which means you basically need to go through, you know, starving in order to get there. And I think that's going to decrease the amount of people who actually will try to do it. Um, which is sad, uh, it's, it's already not a lot of people to do it. And that's sort of my prediction on when it comes to the livelihood of that midsection. Um, I mean, it's, it's not very, sorry.

Yeah. Go for it. No, I just, I just wanted to, uh, conclude on it's, I guess it's never been really that easy to make money off, uh, off of music and, uh, with the internet and streaming coming around, it's, it just amplified, you know, the amount of people that were able to present themselves in front of an audience, uh, before it was sort of gate capped by, well, either you play in your town and you play your local venues and then maybe, uh, before the internet, maybe someone, uh, at the end of the, like on the West coast, if you are on the East coast might find out about you because the CD came there or like a tape, but information is traveling a lot faster now.

And there's more people that are now that have the opportunity to put something on a platform and it's just amplified the amount that the struggle people go through. And on top of that, uh, we got the algorithms, you know, so there's a lot of noise that you have to break through and it's likely not to become, maybe that's, that's also an interesting thing. I mean, the amount of content that's going to be produced by AI in the next few years, I don't think we can even imagine what's, what's coming in the next few years and the, the noise that if you want to be successful, that you have to break through and just by being a great storyteller, maybe the, I don't know, is, is it going to be, like you said, it's got to be the whole package.

You got to have the charisma, you're going to have the personality, even if you're a great storyteller, if you're not, if you're not able to bring across your, uh, your message in an authentic and relatable way, then you might fall off as well too. Yeah. And I, I think that there's already now a, um, a reaction from big platforms, um, that are marketing AI generated content. And I think there might be like further advancements.

Um, so I, uh, I posted on LinkedIn a few days ago that I'm doing something stupid, uh, which I do quite a lot. Um, but I think you also coming out of post is I have, as far as I can tell, um, been a part of creating what we assume to be the first viable business model in the Nordics when it comes to AI artistry, and that is making songs for the specific, New Zealand genre of flow music, which is a high school celebrations where they basically buy songs at very high prices for brand association, where sort of producers and songwriters maybe say their name in the lyric or the title with the, maybe contribute a bit.

And then it's, it's all about for these, uh, high school students to create hype towards their brand. And we have, uh, for a couple of years, tried to make some movements in that space really out of curiosity. Um, and we have now launched sort of an AI offering where we through, uh, tools like Zuno, uh, create songs for these groups. And it's, um, controversial because, you know, that's probably not allowed, but, but the whole thing, what we're trying to say is we're trying to build a business model that actually makes money and takes market share from other creators.

And that is dirty. Sure. Um, but we're trying to make a symbolic effort out of it. Um, I actually lost my train of thought while I was trying to say, but it, but what's really interesting about that is people. Now I lost my train of thought. Maybe you can pick it up back, but, but that's, that's what I'm working on right now. Yeah. Okay. I mean, the, the aspect, the aspect of you having, having like fear that you're taking away work from others.

I, I think that just happens once you, once someone just starts opening their mouth and they speaking their truth. You know, I could go on TikTok right now. And if I wanted to become, try to become an influencer, I have all these prompts. Maybe I could, I could do some TikTok scripts and promote this brand or whatever, and take away share of another influencer or another musician. But I, I think this, if you're doing that, it's very intentional and it's based on the goal that you're setting yourself.

And, um, I think you want to make, uh, at the end of the day, you want to make a positive change, right? I mean, that's, you, you also want to prove a point with, uh, the initiative that you have there that, um, AI, um, is, is something that, um, is, is not here to wipe everything out, but AI, we, first, we want you to understand the implications of course, but we also want you to understand the, the augmentation process and what it means for you and your livelihood.

So maybe, maybe you can give me like a little bit more details, like what, what's the vision behind the project that you're doing now? Um, the vision is ultimately to understand where technology is taking us. Um, and I have a responsibility as a, uh, venture studio CEO to understand where the music and studio go and what business models will be there. But I have this, um, this opinion that what I do within this space doesn't really affect the tech, not technological advancement.

You know, I'm, I'm not, I'm not speeding anything up or slowing anything down. So, uh, and that's not to sort of say that I don't have any responsibility. I'm just saying that this will happen sooner than later. Maybe I'll be one of the first, but then I'll instead it first and help creators and, uh, access decisions, decision to sell for using this. So, so my ultimate goal is understanding where there's money to be made in the future for creators. Um, and that's what I'm doing. And, and I'm not going to tell you, uh, because of the podcast what I'm working on right now, but we are working on multiple iterations of that model that are much more disruptive.

Um, which basically actually makes me sad. Honestly, it's a very conflicting feeling. The work I'm doing these days, which is not research and development, but I'll call it that for the sake of, you know, my own understanding. I sit sometimes and like the work I'm doing now makes me sad because the, and the reason why it makes me sad is because I have been building my career and all my friends that I work like have been building careers towards something that most likely now does not see me by it.

So it's, I'm just looking at the 18 year old kid, which was me, you know, 13 years ago in this room playing guitar and trying to become something. And that's, you know, at, at scale that's, that's going to disappear. And that makes me sad, but going back to, I'm not going to change anything about it. You know, no, I think, I think it's in human nature also to, uh, to explore and not stand still and there need to be use cases and case studies that, uh, are being crafted to kind of lead the way.

So, uh, if you're, if you're exploring the field and you're, um, you're making a, you're making an impact, might that be like on a good scale? Like, uh, you say, okay, it's, it's sometimes it's making you sad, but when we look at music in, uh, history, um, there's always been advancements in music that really rivaled the status quo. Like, I'm like just, I'm just basically thinking about acoustic instruments versus when electric instruments came about or, um, you know, sampling and, uh, the photograph that really changed the status quo of, um, you know, well, electric instruments like with rock and roll, you know, and that purists, purists didn't like that.

It, I don't know, sounded like the devil in the same way, like in the eighties, what is that Metallica or, you know, that in the nineties, what, uh, what are they doing with our kids? Uh, why are they listening to Nirvana? Why are they so rebellious all of a sudden the same with the sex pistols, we're just going like, every one of us is going through the motion and we're trying to make sense of this in our own ways. And sometimes that, I mean, I'm, um, I have these moments too, where I'm, where I'm looking bad at things used to be a lot more simpler, uh, making music and promoting music.

Now, um, the, the field is wide open and you have a sea of opportunities. And sometimes it's, it takes a, it takes some time to figure out what's right for you and what's not, because you don't want to lose yourself in all that noise. You want to stay authentic to you. So I think we're all going through emotions and we're trying to make sense of this in, in the best possible way. Yeah. And that's sort of the, the weird thing about what you and I do is it's going so fast.

It's, it's so confusing and I don't think we'll ever land on, on our feet. Like it's, it's just flying through the air, trying to stay updated. I honestly don't know where this is going. Like I, I really don't know. Like I get surprised pretty much every second week about something and it's going so fast that it just confuses me. Like the way that, you know, Sora was announced six months ago and we were all like, and then now run, Runway ML Gen 3 and just look at like, that's Sora.

It's coming out in what, like a week? You know, it's, it happens so fast. You get so surprised. And what, yeah, I think, I think every, uh, I think every person is, is different in a, in a way. Like if I, for instance, if I look at my dad, like my dad, he, he's now retired, but he worked for the same company for 30 years. He was very, um, uh, used to a certain process. So there was no, no real big change management happening at this company was doing the same job like for 30 years.

But like, if you're working in the field that is very, very fast moving, you have to rewire your brain almost every week, which like you're describing with, with AI, that's the case. So you always, uh, you always feel like you're, you have to challenge yourself and it's, it's never putting you in a position of, all right, so we're set up now, and this is going to be it for the next six to 12 months. I can work with that. No problem. It's a constant, confusing change management process that just never stops. And what a time to be alive.

Honestly. Yeah. And also the improvements, like, you know, um, Anthropic just released Claw 3.5 and just like, well, why do you use ChatGPT now? They just came out with the, you know, update a month ago, but like, this is just kills it. And, and I think that's, that's the thing that I sort of, most of my conversations with friends who are into AI is really like, just, I'm not tired. I'm just like, I don't know what to say because we can have a conversation now and in two weeks it'll be a different conversation.

And, but, but there are some underlying concepts that are interesting though. And that is, um, what I call, uh, context. So you have AI context, sure. But you have human context, whatever you prompt, whatever you want needs to have a context and a will, a direction and a why. And that seems to stay quite constant. What, what's your thoughts about that? So, um, I am constantly challenging myself.

Uh, and that is, I mean, the, the basic thesis is if you put trash in, you will get trash out. So it's, if, once you start using these chatbots and I mean, in the same way, when I picked up the guitar for the first time, I was, I sounded terrible, probably not probably, but definitely for, for a number of, uh, for a number of years. Um, and my parents had to listen, listen to it, uh, every, anything that I ever did on guitar, like with my brother, he was playing drums that we recorded and we were so proud of it that, uh, every evening we were, uh, we were playing it to our, to our mom and to our dad and saying, Hey, how are you thinking about that?

And we're like, Hmm, it's great. So the thing is, the thing is like with these chatbots, it's the same thing. Like one, the first time you're put in front of this, you're thinking like in the same way you're put in front of, um, an empty paper. Well, what am, what am I going to write today? And it's, it's not becoming easier. It's only becoming easier once you're opening up yourself to the amount of possibilities and you're, you're wire, uh, you're rewiring your brain in the way that, uh, you're, you're adapting to new processes.

You're adapting to new workflows. Like you said, for instance, um, the, the amount of workflow, um, adaptions that I've done in the last six to 12 months is probably is, to me, it's, it's unreal that I've not done that in the last 10 years when I was working as an agile coach, for instance, where I was training different development teams, how to be more effective. There's proven processes. Those don't change like overnight, but prompting. And okay. How, how does this prompt like build up?

You need a persona, you need a task. Uh, and it's very important to give instructions. And an example is good as well. Maybe you should be polite at the end and then a few, a few weeks, a few weeks later. Okay. So this, this prompt was great, but it's actually very, very outdated now. And that's, it's one of the challenges that I'm facing doing this, um, AI transformation for that marketing agency. So they, they work for a number of clients, but all of the, all of the prompts that I'm prompting for them and I'm testing them meticulously and we're trading output after two to three weeks, I'm like, Hey, it's not cutting anymore.

I need to, I need to adapt them because there's, there's a new tool. I don't know how you, uh, if you feel like that as well on, on LinkedIn, there's so many tools that are being presented and coming out. Uh, it's very hard to, you have to cut through the noise and see what's good for you and your journey sometimes and kind of filter it out. It's, um, it's a very chaotic process. Um, but yeah, with prompting, it's, if you're putting trash in, try, uh, you get trash out.

So you need to be very mindful about, uh, the rules and the kind of, uh, the ways that you talk to a chatbot to get the desired output that you like. Hmm. And, and if you were to, um, give advice to musicians, entrepreneurs in this space, um, there, there's a lot of interesting takeaways from our learnings. I'm going to start with one of them. And that is when I started doing music, um, I, I started quite, I was 17 when I really got into music, playing instruments and I never became a good musician.

Uh, and that's difficult when I was becoming a producer, I, I got into one of the most difficult schools to get into as a music producer. The average age is 26. All my classmates were like, uh, Danish Grammy award winners. Like the, it's so hard to get into the school. And I really haven't proven anything, uh, which was difficult for me because I couldn't really produce music. What I was good at is I was really good at telling people how to make music. Um, but that was very embarrassing for me because, you know, I could hear and I could see the vision and I could inform people, but I couldn't really do much myself.

So I became good at mixing and that was fine and all, but I stopped doing music for that exact reason that I'm not going to have a viable business here because I always need to buy the services of others to live out my vision, which means the cut for me is going to be too small. Like it's not going to be viable for me. And actually I stopped my music career. Um, I wouldn't say saddies, just the realization is I'm not going to make it in whatever this is. And now AI comes, I'm like, I'm the fucking best because I have spent my, my whole career, um, bringing the context to others or systems to make one thing.

And that is basically how I see AI as a musician is like the skills in the future and also now are not that important, but your intention and how you tie all the pieces together is going to be the key. So if, if I were to bring an advice, uh, sorry, I've spoken this much on the podcast, but it is to understand that there might be a shift in how you need to position yourself to make music. It's not really as important right now that you are that one piece of the puzzle, but maybe it's more important now that you define the whole vision, that the story you want to say, you bring all the pieces together to tell that story.

And there's one word that I, that I like to use, and that is the facilitator. And I think that's a position that's going to be very strong for music in the future. First off, um, I saw your journey kind of reminds me, um, you talked about, okay, I was not the best at mixing music, et cetera. I was trying to describe my intention. Well, maybe you're a real little Rick Rubin there because Rick Rubin, he cannot, he cannot play an instrument. He cannot, uh, work a soundboard, but what he can really do, uh, do well is describe a feeling and what, what he, what he sees and what, what he likes, what he likes to hear.

The simplicity of describing something and then that, you know, instilling that thought in someone else's brain and then them saying, okay, I've understood where you want me to go. I'll play this. And that's a very big gift. And that's, that's something that we can probably translate to the art of prompting. The text, the text, the text, the prompting that we have right now, that's very limited because it's, I feel like, um, if you're inputting a prompt in, uh, in a tool, it gives you an output, but, um, it's not enough to control it in a way that would be very pleasing for musicians.

So the, um, the audio to audio, um, revolution, I don't know, I would, I would say, which is taking place, uh, right now where, um, sooner would you roll it out where you can upload your own sound files or you can hum, uh, a beat. Um, so when you upload, it's not just translated to BPM, uh, it's sounding like a drum beat, but you can hum a guitar or you can play the guitar and you upload it. What this is about is gaining more control again, which we're not able to through, uh, texting.

So it's going to be some, I don't know if you, how you call that in English, but some symbiosis, like, uh, it's a merger of the texting, uh, text prompting, describing feeling, and then, um, physically doing something to enhance that feeling. And, um, listen, I, I think if, if you're aware of these tools and you're putting in the time, you can do anything you want. One of the biggest pain points in music and for musicians that are not making it is because first off, they're not good at social media content, writing social media content and understanding storytelling.

So they, they don't know how to, um, this is not about like getting the streams count up. This is about getting visibility for your story on social media. So that this is a lot of, a lot of them have, have a struggle with that. And I understand like for, uh, for labels, they have teams of, uh, strategists and PR agents and marketing managers so that, you know, they're covered there. But for the, for the average indie artists, it's a lot, uh, it's a lot, uh, harder, but once you know, understand how to use AI tools, you can buy back time.

And that's one of the pain points that people have. You're on social media, like you, uh, you're, you do these TikToks because you think you're going to go viral and then you don't have any time anymore for making music. So now you've got the AI, you can automate the content creation process. If you're, if you work out a system, uh, creating content and badges, then on Monday morning, you set yourself a plan two, three hours. I'm going to do 15 to 20 posts. That's what I do. So for the next two to three weeks, I'm, I'm set basically.

And then, um, well, great. It's Monday morning or it's, it's lunchtime. Awesome. So I've got the whole week to make music now. And that if, if people, if, uh, artists are figuring that out, man, that's going to be great for their music because they, they can take their music to the next level because they already got the content game figured out. Yeah. I think that's very true. Um, it's going to be really interesting to look back on this conversation.

Uh, it's not even, I was about to say a year, but let's just say six months, maybe even say four months because the industry we're in are changing so fast. And there's so many tools coming out all the time that makes a difference. And I can only encourage people to go to your website, AI music printer, uh, AI music printer and sign up to any newsletter, figure out what tools are coming out, your thoughts about things, follow you on LinkedIn.

Because I think there's a responsibility for musicians with an ambition to have a livelihood in the future to know what's happening. I was a few hours ago. I, um, I was on a call with one of the producers that I work really, uh, close, closely to. And I did feel a bit sad, but I told him what I believe to be the truth. I sent him a few songs that I had, um, done something with relating to AI. I'm not going to say what it is because I don't want to inspire people too much.

And I basically said to him, look, I love you. I think you're amazing. You're a great producer. But what I'm sending you now is an example of, if you do not jump on board, you will be jobless in 24 months. The progress you're making right now with development you're making right now is going to be irrelevant. And it makes me sad to say, but I'm for you. Research these things, jump on some projects, understanding how AI can take us.

Because the only wish from my side is for you to have an amazing career in music. But if you keep on just producing like you did before, I don't believe you're going to make it and you should make it. And I want you to make it. And that's the conversations I believe people should have. Uh, and I, and I'm, I really don't think I'm exaggerating. Like the things that you tell about, the things that you update is essential for understanding the future of what we do.

And the music industry will be severely disrupted when it comes to the tools and the creation processes. But you will still have something to say, but please learn the tools. That's how I see it. I don't know how to top that. No, there was a, there was a, there was a preaching. I'm sorry. No. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's a lot of, a lot of truth. I think, um, if you put yourself in a position and I, I do see a lot of producers that have been in the music industry for a while that, that I've had conversations with.

A very good example is, um, Diamond, Diamond Hugo, uh, is a British producer and he's, um, well, he's using these tools to augment his process, uh, in the same way that artists like Daniel Beddingfield that just came out and said, well, the, the album or the album that I'm working on, it's the best thing I've done in 20 years. So he's already, he's already feeding into the fact, wow. I mean, when I thought my music was great, um, and I could make great music now, I, I know the craft, but then I have these new tools to, uh, spread my like horizon.

So maybe I was on step, I thought I was on step 10, but maybe I'm only on step five and I'm going up the ladder again because this is the start of a new journey. This is the start of a journey with new instruments and new tools in my toolkit where I can help take my, um, take my vision to the next level. And I, I think that's an incredibly, it's an incredibly, incredibly interesting time where we are right now. If you're opening up yourself to the opportunities that are lying in front of you, then the sky is the limit, I think.

Yeah. I'm going to give one last example, um, of how I believe that this is true and, and how it spills over to creativity in general for a musician. Uh, one of the companies that we own is called Capella, which is a Southwest Norway based, Norway based artist agency. And we've had, uh, I think three years in a row, we've had this, uh, showcase party where we sort of showcase our artists and it's been good attendance, uh, attendance, but I, for a while wanted to create something that was more coherent and had a storytelling.

And we're doing this, uh, topic called the future is here is basically with all artists. We're going to do, uh, argumented artistry. And we're going to have a, what I call a social economic commentary about the future of the creative industries. That's obviously not how we're going to promote it because that's not very sexy, but that's what I want to want to do. And I want the show to be a certain way with the visuals to be a certain way and the storytelling to be a certain way and the artistry to be presented in a certain way. And if you asked me a year ago to do that, I was like, absolutely not going to happen.

I'm, I don't have the capacity to do that. But now, now I look at like, sure, I can do that. I know, I know pretty much all the tools to consistently in the visual performance, in the artistry, in the argumented to co like do it with AIs and personas. And I know, I know how to do all of that and, and it's not going to be that time consuming just as long as I have a clear intentional vision. And that's interesting. That's, that's a whole format that I would think impossible to live out my vision 12 months ago. And now I'm like, I pretty much know every single step of the way how to approach it.

And if you take that back to artists, when you talk to shows, live shows, performances, how you convey yourself through social media or in physical person. That's amazing. You can basically have a unique vision and you can live it out. Yeah. The, yeah. I mean, I could only agree. The, the opportunities I think are really amazing. I, uh, just this week on Tuesday, I had a workshop with a bunch of producers.

Uh, they're more like electronic, uh, producers, but, um, it's something that I would have done like five years ago where it would have taken me two or three days to put together a four week content release, like a song release strategy. If I have an interview of an artist right now that is up on YouTube, I could just grab the transcript. Out of that, I could extract information that I put into a prompt. And in seconds, I have a four week song release strategy.

I'll take one of these ones, put it in another prompt and I have ready to post social media content. And that's in the split of 10 minutes, which would have taken me probably days also because I wouldn't have the creative input maybe. So things are like the, the things that were sort of not impossible, but like very, very lengthy in time in the same, like, like you said, putting together like an immersive project, um, this is where AI is also going to help a lot in the future, like sifting through a lot of material what we see like with Elvis, like the Elvis evolution, uh, VR show, or I think they do that with a, I think it, is it, is it a hologram?

And then they use AI, uh, to, I think you can also interact with him on stage. So if you're talking and that's the interesting part before it was all static, so you could not talk to the person, but this is wild to think, okay, I could actually interact with someone that is dead on stage because it's been trained on different material to interact with me and respond. And to your point, like, um, now everything, uh, the, all the tools are there. Your vision is not compromised anymore.

It's, it's boundless. And you just have to take that opportunity and get it. I think that's a great way to end the podcast. Christopher, it's, it's been a pleasure. Um, we've, we've ranted a tiny bit about certain stuff and we've gone on a few detours, but, but I love it because it's so, um, I would almost say the discovery of AI almost seems directionless right now because there's coming from all angles.

You don't really know what direction it's taking. Um, but something will happen. So I, I think now's the time to just, really, just sit along for the ride, explore, discover, don't make conclusions too fast. Just, just be there, learn, understand what you can use right now. They'll probably be not going to be useful in three months. There'll be some iteration of it. That's much better. Um, yeah, but I can only import people to follow you on LinkedIn. You are the only person that I have an alarm on, uh, for that specific reason.

I will try to keep it that way. Yeah. Obviously because you write really well, but also I believe it's just, it's so tailored towards what I want and need. So thank you, Christopher. Thank you so much, man. And, um, hope to meet you in person one day. Absolutely. I'll look forward to the day. Let's do it again in a few months and look back at what's been happening. It's going to be different. Yes, absolutely. All right. Okay. Talk soon. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye.