Building the Future of Music: Blockchain, AI, and the Allfeat Platform

You will keep the data of your artist and you will be able to say that you're a real fan. You're a real super fan. In the other way, the artist will be able to track and to say, OK, today I'm in Miami. All the guys that sent me any feed, so all my feeders, please join me here and I'll be here for like three hours. Private, I don't know, private meal, private lunch here in the bar, in the restaurant. OK, all my strong feeders, come here and join me.

We have been talking about blockchain for many years. Does that mean that it's irrelevant now? Absolutely not. I believe it's more relevant than ever. JC and Alfie has done something especially interesting. They have built blockchain for the music industry. Let's learn more about it. Hey, guys, and welcome back to the Sound Connections. Today I'm in a new room, but I'm talking with a very interesting person. JC, welcome to the podcast. Thank you.

Hello, Jacob. So we're going to talk about Alfie today. And I stumbled upon you and your company on LinkedIn. It's really interesting. For the people who know me know that I, let's call it, dabble in blockchain. But I'm a big, big supporter of what the technology represents. And JC, you are building something very interesting on the blockchain or blockchain. You need to explain in depth sort of what you do. But the concepts of it is that the music industry could benefit from blockchain.

And you are one of the technology providers that are addressing that. So before we sort of go into that specifically, can you tell me who are you and what do you do? Yeah, thank you for that. So I'm JC, the CEO and co-founder. And Lois is the CTO. Lois Lagote is the CTO. We have built a blockchain since like three years now. I was working in Deloitte and in rewards, in wealth management, compensation and benefits.

And built some companies like MBY, Music Better With You, that were searching a way to better monetize the authorite in the music industry. I've built Rubichain.io, which is a Web3 and AI agency. And Gammy Capital, a Swiss-regulated company based in Switzerland for institutional investors. And we have a lot of advisors there in music. We met together with Lois in 2021 in the Alira blockchain schools.

And we've decided to build a project, a layer one for the music industry. Okay, this is going to be interesting. It's going to be a bit of a nerdy podcast, but I think it's important. Most of the listeners on this podcast are innovators, entrepreneurs, music industry professionals, and allow ourselves to go into sort of deep stuff. But I think to set the scene before we go into awfully too much, let's get some concepts in place. You say layer one blockchain. Can you please explain to me what that is? You have internet today with applications.

Applications like streaming, crowdfunding, ticketing. Okay. Blockchain is the same, but it's a secure protocol. So, a blockchain is using an internal security as using the decentralization. Okay. So, a blockchain is providing two tools. It's providing traceability and ownership.

The first one is traceability. It's with authorites, royalties, I mean all the IPs, like blockchain smart contracts inside. Implementing blockchain technology for royalty and tracking can provide transparency, more efficiency maybe. Smart contracts can automate royalty payment and ensuring timeline and, let's say, accurate distribution directly to artists. So, you have traceability, then you have ownership because all the non-fungible tokens, you know, the NFTs, it's like you're doing something, you're doing any product and you want to say through ticketing, streaming, you're going to sell goods, CDs, everything.

Everything can be tokenized. So, you can send this through NFTs like a big picture. So, first, traceability, all the IPs. Second, ownerships, all your work and you will send to someone and it will be secured. And the third one is, let's say, the community builders. When you have all feed tokens and a token for the whole industry, it gives the opportunity to send tokens to artists or send tokens to listeners.

So, you can provide, like, you are having a stream, let's say, like this. You are listening and sing. I'm listening one song. And this song, I'm paying the applications. But what if tomorrow I want to, let's say, to reward or to send something directly to the artist and to follow him, I will send him directly a token. And this, the artist will do whatever he wants, but the artist will be able to say that, okay, here is the fan.

I will be able to, to create a strong community in the music industry because I will have all my fans. So, first, just to summarize, the first, IPs, traceability. Second, ownership by NFTs. And third one is community building with tokens. So, basically, it's sort of a, very simplified, a more advanced, usable, safe, traceable internet.

Yeah. It's sort of the, you know, I think that's, you know, why people call it Web3. It's sort of the, the major iteration from the internet that, you know, we have known. Yeah, you have all your data. You're conserving all your data. It's like, let's do like this. You are, for example, you have an artist and you will have his, you will follow all his concerts, but all the ticketing you're paying is in different ticketers. You're listening his songs in maybe sometimes different streamers.

You're doing, okay, you're following everything from the artist. In your own wallet, you will have everything from the artist. So, you will have your own, you will keep the data of your artist and you will be able to say that you're a real fan. You're a real super fan. In the other way, the artist will be able to track and to say, okay, today I'm in Miami. All the guys that sent me any feeds, so all my feeders, please join me here and I'll be here for like three hours.

Private, I don't know, private meal, private lunch here in the bar, in the restaurants. Okay. All my strong feeders come here and join me. And you'll do this all around the world. So, it's a way that, yes, artists and fans will keep their own data and they will be able to be in a stronger relation with the artist. Yeah. So, we'll deep dive into how that practical will play out with you guys and how you envision companies building on it. Just a sort of technical differentiation.

So, there's, you know, layer two, there's layer one. Yeah. What does that all mean? I think you gave a picture, a time to talk with you about sort of highway and roads and houses. Just to explain what you mean by your layer one blockchain. Layer one is the infrastructure. Layer one is the road. And applications are like cities, buildings, areas. And these roads will interconnect all the applications.

So, today, if you're joining the music industry, you will first go to the applications. We are in a B2B relation. So, we are discussing with the applications. The artists and the fans will have the deal in the applications. We are the road that will interconnect all the apps. And in these roads, you as an artist or you as a fan will drive with your own car, with your wallet.

And with this own car, you will go everywhere. But every time, you will have your GPS. And all the gifts you had is in the car. Everything, every relation you had is in the car. So, you have everything with you. That's the Web3. Yeah. And everything is sécurized. Yeah. And that's the really interesting thing about blockchain in general. Like, if you sort of the last five, ten years on Web2, you know, there's so many data points about you as a person.

Or you have an artist that has so many data points about their fans, but they don't own any of it. It's sort of centralized in whatever platform or company they were using in order to make that monetization. So, that's very interesting. Oh, yeah. And, you know, there is one point. It's even interesting for the independent artists or, let's say, all independent actors because they will be able to join without asking. Okay, I'm in the blockchain. Okay, I want to go there. I want to go there or create some new source of revenue alone.

We'll get more into the practicals, and I have a lot of questions about this space, and I'm very interested because I do believe blockchain in general is the technological solution provider to many issues that are evident in the music industry or just the world at large. But let me understand the journey a bit more. You briefly mentioned it, but, like, you began all feet a few years ago, but can you give me a more detailed sort of description of how that journey is?

And what the journey came to be to creating that, and then also what you've done the last three years. Okay. Imagine you're in music, or, I mean, maybe not, but imagine you have an idea of a music project. And this project, you're thinking days and nights about that. But you have the idea. And for this, first, you have to make a big bet because is it working or not?

That's the first point. But then you want to have traceability and ownership, as I said. So if you're on these both topics, you'll say, okay, I'll go to the blockchains industry. First, you're doing a big bet on your project, which is, like, really big. But then you have to make a second bet. It's in which blockchain you'll go. Today, you have approximately 50, 5-0, 50 blockchains. And just Forbes, you'll see the art of the newspaper, just Forbes said, 20 blockchains are useless.

Because they, okay, you can read the newspaper. And at this time, three years ago, we said exactly the same thing. We said that adoption is coming, and blockchain is having real use cases. So, but for us, Ethereum, the first one, so first and first all, the first one was there. So, something more better could be existing. But the traction is there. The community is there.

So, okay, let's focus on that. Then we say that maybe the second step of the blockchain is industry. If you have one layer for the whole industry that's really focusing on the typical aspect of the industry, maybe it will be stronger. That's why, actually, that's the tag of Olvid, make it stronger. Why? Because if you have one blockchain for the whole industry, like you have today, you have, in sports, you have Chilis.

In logistics, you have Honest. In luxury, you have Aura. In Medicare, you have Galleon. But you have nothing in music, like open-sourced and really designed for the music industry. So, in 2021, we said, okay, maybe there is something there to develop. And building this idea, we have 43 NDAs after, like, months discussing with the whole industry. And then we said, okay, let's go.

Let's move on. Let's do something for the industry. That was the plan. It's interesting. I think one of the big issues with blockchain is the storytelling it has around it. Not you guys, but blockchain in general because of crypto and NFTs and blah, blah. So, I think there's some underlying understanding and indication that must happen in order to sort of also for consumers and product developers to sort of gain trust back.

So, I'm asking you some questions about some technicalities about Alfie. How does it actually work? And I know your CCOA isn't here, but, like, you guys have some compute somewhere and you've built through. Like, can you go through a bit of the sort of technical detail to, like, how it works building and having your own blockchain? So, it's a smart contract. It's like you will write an action that you're sending something to someone and it's written and decentralized.

So, for example, if your laptop is crashing, I don't care because the information is in the whole network. Because it's all around the world, okay? So, that's the first point. Decentralized, it's because every smart contract, which is the proof of the information, is written around the ecosystem. And the second point is it's written in a way that it cannot be modified. So, that's the main point.

That's the main point. But the technical infrastructure that you have in place in order to facilitate this blockchain, how is that? Okay. So, we have built the core. Sorry, that's a little bit to take now. But we have built the core of the blockchain in Rust, okay, as a substrate contract. So, we have built the protocol in Rust, the blockchain in Rust, in substrate. And for the top, to allowing all the apps to come, we're working with Ethereum.

So, all the contracts we have, it's like in our blockchain, we have the equivalent of ERC-20, it's IFT-20, or ERC-1155, it's the same, all fit, IFT-1155. It's really, it's used in streaming, for example, because it's an information that you can send to everybody. That's the first point, the smart contract and the core of the blockchain plus interoperability with all the blockchains in EVM.

And actually, that's the first point. The first one is with all fit, it's interoperability. The way that three or four years ago, applications came to us and we say, okay, I'm here in this blockchain, but I want more traction. I want more adoption, so I will build in two or three years, I will build in this blockchain too, because I want this population, this population. So, we say, okay, stop here. Build your project, build your applications. We will, as a blockchain, as a layer one, we will discuss with all the other layer ones, and we will make this interoperability.

So, just focus on your project, focus on your idea. That's the first one, interoperability. Then, we can say, why all fit? Blockchain is done, traceability and ownership. Okay, and then with the IFT token, you can have the community builders. But then, why all fit? All fit, we have built the MIDS, the music industry, decentralized data structure.

We can say that today, we have at least two pains in the music. The first one is authorites, IPs. We can discuss about that, if it's deeper or not, but it's a pain. And the second one is meta data, so first, IPs, second, meta data. We said we have built internally, we said for the tech in a palette, we have built internally a kind of registration.

The artist will fill with his identity, with kind of music he's doing, like hip-hop, rap, whatever. And all this data will define the artist. That's the first step. So then, he will be able to travel all around all the apps with this palette. Okay. The second point is meta data. When you have information, it will be linked by a hash. It will be linked for all your information.

So like this, authorites will be automatics. And then, at the end, the third one that will be built at the end of the year, starting 2025, it's all the way that all the authorites, authority, authorites management is working. So we will open the code, and we'll ask all the people, all the developers to join, because we have an idea, but we want to develop this. So the blockchain is alive.

It's okay. TestNest is alive. We'll launch in a couple of months. But then, we've built this interoperability first, and second, the MRDS, the music industry, decentralized data structure. And are you using some sort of already defined, data-complied structures such as DDEX or Meet? We will work with them. We will work with them, because it's like, yeah, I mean, definitely.

And then, at the end, it's an open-source code that we've built. So everybody can jump in, check the codes, and I think I'm completely sure about that. Someone will jump in and say, okay, maybe there is another way to think about that or to implement something. Okay, let's jump, open the book, do it yourself, propose to the community, because at the end, it's a blockchain. So it will be managed by decentralized autonomous organizations.

If you're in the NIC community, and if you have the token IFT, you'll be able to propose any new tools, any new solutions. It's open-source. It's like Linux. It's like, it's open. What does that mean practically for, you know, businesses that want to venture in, Web3, has an existing Web2 business, and I'm curious about the possibilities in Web3.

What does the open-source mean, and what is the benefits of sort of building on Web3 for such companies? It means that, first, transparency, okay, which is not a small word for us. So it means that the code is open, and if the music industry is saying that there is something needed in authorize, there is something needed in metadata, there is something in, I don't know, maybe tomorrow we'll have new use cases.

There will be no, everybody will be able to create something, okay? And open-source meaning is the first step. The second point is, when you're building something, when you have an idea of an application, you will probably code your apps in a certain type of code. And you will have, in these applications, you will be, or not, you can be restricted, but it's your own data, but you will be restricted to have everything in a second.

With the Web3, no. I mean, it will depend on the applications, okay? I will do like this. If you're a streamer, imagine you're a streamer, and you will say, okay, agree. You, as an artist, has been listening all this week, but please, wait. I need to verify, or to secure, or to do whatever you want, and it needs one month to give you the feedback of what you have been, what you had been listening.

And, okay, in the Web3, as an artist, you had built your own profile, and your profile is in different apps. In one second, you will have instantaneously, you will have everything in your wallet. I mean, you are, let's say, your third parties, for example, labels, because this is, okay, we can make just one point like this, on this. I'm completely convinced about, in the music industry specifically, we all need third parties.

We will not put to the garbage all the labels. Like, okay, I mean, look, you can see here, the guitars, okay, I'm playing musics, okay, but I don't have the time, I don't have the time to market myself. I don't have the time to spend two days a week. I have a wife, family, kids, friends, whatever. I don't have the time to spend two days, so I will always need someone to represent me. Like, in every company, I have the same issues.

So, just, I'll close this. So, I will have my own profile, and this profile will be diluted in all the apps. So, in one sec, I'll have all the data. That's the main changing, the main points from Web2 to Web3. And if you do have companies that are interested in building on, let's, all feet, such as, you know, existing Web2 companies, or you have a Web3 company on a different blockchain, how will you guys go about it? Will you help them, onboard them, or?

Yeah, we are helping them to understand the project, the codes. But you can find many, many information on the website, docs.allfeet.com. It's easy to find, or just like allfeet.com, it's easy. You go on the website, and I have all the data. And everything is written. And the more we'll have community, the more people will make, like, videos, traction, documentation.

So, it will be more and more and more, I explain. Until, let's say, until May, April, we had an internal onboarding process. Because we were, at the beginning of the testnet, so even if we have now 13, one, three, 13 applications in music industry that we are discussing with, we still have to explain and to help the developers to develop in the blockchain.

Actually, mid-June, we have this hackathon, 14, 15, and 16 of June, we'll have a public hackathon. So, if you have a POC, and we'll do this, like, I mean, I think quarterly, like a kind of POC. You have an idea, and just dev here, and then we'll help you to develop. That's interesting. So, what specifically makes you guys better for the music industry than if people were just building on Avalanche, Ethereum directly, or Flow, or whatever?

Like, what is it that makes you guys so beneficial for the music companies? The community, the TVL. You can say that if you have one layer, open source, one layer, applications in music, streaming, ticketing, gaming, even DeFi, traction, all the use cases in the music industry. Plus, you have, so we have there, we have already now 13, one, three.

We have validators, so we have there, we have, we have one DSP, we have a wise band, blockchain schools, music schools, e-card, and music management schools. We have here validators of the blockchains here. Plus, you have one token for the whole industry. So, if you want to participate in the governance of the blockchain, you'll be able to do these tokens. So, that's the main point.

It's a whole community. And that's really, really interesting because maybe tomorrow, people from Asia will communicate with people from South America through this IFT with the same code all around the world, with the same way of building. It means that tomorrow, for sure, people will create new tools specifically for the music industry. That's what we made with the MIDS, the music industry, decentralized data structure.

It's really specific for the music and the way it was building was really thought like it's able for the music industry. And last point, we say that our tokens, it's like ERC-20 or ERC-1155. We have the IFT-20 and IFT-1155. Maybe tomorrow we'd say, okay, for the streaming, maybe you should write something better than this.

So, IFT-1155.1. Okay. Awesome. So, first, community. Second, it's like future optimization of one network. That makes a lot of sense. Okay. It's an interesting project. I'll try to play devil's advocate just to understand. Yeah. So, for example, people might say, okay, well, that's a great ambition.

What if you feel like, you know, it's a big ambition also to be a blockchain. Is that like, is all the work lost in on the blockchain? I'm just trying to understand it from like a negative side. Today, we have 1.3 billion of market cap in the global Web3 music. It's mainly in NFTs and a lot of, because NFT is proof of ownership and trustability for the RIPs. Everything will be open source and will be still running.

So, if someone wants to take the project and say, okay, I have new ideas. Okay, let's move on. And then, at the end, as we will have interoperability through the project, someone that will build in AllFit will be instantly, will be able to move with maybe one or two months of development, will be able to move in like Ethereum or, I don't know, in Polygon or in Avalanche maybe. That's interesting you're talking about Avalanche because we can say, sorry for that, but we can say that when I've talked about all the blockchains dedicated to industries, we can say that maybe Avalanche is more focusing on finance, for example.

Ethereum will be the big layer. And again, okay, it's just an idea that I'm just putting in here. Yeah, so you may be talking about, you know, if there are certain functionalities in Avalanche that has big experience with financial transactions and securities, like not securities, but in secure transactions, you can sort of use an aspect of your native presence on Alfit to do certain things in Avalanche. Exactly, exactly.

And we will, okay, all the blockchains that are today existing, I mean, the main one from 17, 19, that was the year, from 14 to 16, that was the big gap and the big bump. If someone in these blockchains with their own cause is inviting something and we can say that, okay, it's interesting for the music industry. Actually, someone will say, okay, maybe I have to develop this for the music industry because I had any use cases.

So it will be developed because it's Solidity, it's EVM, it's easy to be built. So, yeah. Okay. That's really interesting because I think one of my biggest words have been like there's different benefits from different blockchains and presences and communities. And basically what you're saying, if I'm trying to just understand it back, the benefit of Alfit is that it can be, I'm going to butcher the word you use, interoperability, so you can connect with your blockchains.

But being natively on Alfit means that you have the community, you have the verification, you have the sort of improvement of certain protocols and sort of to make sure that everything we're doing is optimized for the music industry and the interaction between the artists, the businesses, the builder and the fans. Yes, exactly. And, you know, we have to work on something with the authorites. Do you, it's really open, I mean, what I will say.

Do we, all users, can say that it's logic, it's normal because of technical aspect, okay, and legal and blah, blah. Okay, but do we admit that it's not logic to wait for sometimes 12 months, 24 months to have his authorites, royalties? Because, I mean, no, I mean, we can all say that it's no.

I'm not saying that we will solve this, I mean, we probably will do, but it's just, okay, there is the technology. Look, let's open the door, just put it on the table, all of us, and then, okay, there is a blockchain. It's open source. If I'm dying tomorrow, the blockchain will be still, if Lois and I will die tomorrow, the blockchain will be open source. Everybody will be able to work on that. That's the main point. It is open source. So, okay, you have an idea, build it. Build it because it will maybe beneficiate for, it will be interesting for the world music industry.

So, when you have this fully up and running, you're launching in a few months, like, what's going to be your biggest mission? Is that preaching the gospel of the community or, like, what's going to be your biggest mission? Is it developing the technology more? I need to understand all feet a bit more there. So, we are a foundation. We are based in Switzerland, okay? So, we want to develop the project. So, we have two, let's say, two main projects. Let's first go and discuss with all the applications that are today in the music industry, but, like, in all the apps, all the blockchains.

And, I mean, at the end, we were in Austin, and it was like we said, okay, we've built a blockchain for the music industry. Wow! Awesome, explain to me, blah, blah. Okay, let's go. So, we came back from Austin with, like, yeah, with seven applications because it's logic. It makes sense. So, first, applications, use cases because we're in a B2B. Second, it's trying to build a community that will create new way to work through the Web3.

So, that's why we will build this hackathon. So, we had one on the first quarter of 24. We have now an hackathon on the second quarter of 24. We'll have a third one in 24 because we want to have traction. And we need, like, whatever the idea, put it on the table, even if it's bullshit. Just build it, and maybe it goes like it will be useful for the blockchain. So, to answer, first, applications, and second, community.

Yeah. So, one of the things that I think is really interesting as a concept is sort of tokenization of data that our platform has. Yeah. And, you know, you can probably nuance this point a bit, but one of the things that I'm thinking about a lot is we have a lot of small companies doing small things, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. Oftentimes, you sit with a product where you get some data that you can use for your platform.

But this data can be, you know, used in other settings as well, but you own the data. Yeah. And that's where sort of, okay, you can tokenize this data. You can open it up for use so other people can use it, and you can monetize on other uses of your data. Can you elaborate that point? Because for me, that is probably the most important commercialization thing. Exactly. You're right, Jacob. You're completely right. It's like, as I said, you have the traditional way. You are, I'm a fan, but it can be an artist, an application, but I'm a fan.

I want to buy something, a product, ticketing, stream, whatever, okay? Let's say with a ticket. I'm buying a ticket of your concert. I'm a fan, you're an artist. Okay, so I'll pass through an application, at least a decentralized application, a DAP. I'll pass through a DAP, but I will, as a fan, pay this DAP, and this DAP will pay you as an artist. And we can have direct connection. You will say, okay, I have this ticket, and I will instantly give it to you as a fan.

And if you have 7, 10, 11 tickets, which comes from different suppliers, from different concerts, from festivals, or for whatever, if you can prove me that you have all these tickets, so it's pictures, so it's NFTs, okay? One ticket is an NFT. If you can prove me that you have all these NFTs, I will create a specific relation with you as an artist. So, first, it's community building, and this is what the artists are trying to do now.

It's gamification of the community. Why all the other people say, oh, let's go to Super Fun. Come on, guys. Super Fun, it's gamification. That's all what we need. So, all they need. So, first, it's gamification with the NFT. And the second point is when you have one, the same, one ticket, or even a stream. Let's do a stream.

You're able, as an artist, to split your ticket. So, you're selling your ticket $1, or let's say $10. Okay, $10. You're selling this $10. But you will split the ticket because it's a premium one. So, you'll say, okay, this is my picture, my face. I will split in, let's say, 11 pieces. All the pieces are equal to 100. And your Super Fun will buy it because then, with these small pieces of your picture, you will have, for years, have an access specifically to the artist.

So, that's why Web3 is going so stronger. It's because you are onboarding gamification. Ownership, by the proof of ownership, because it's sure, transparent, and decentralized. You will bring a stronger community here. But there's also a B2B proposition here, which is quite interesting. Exactly. I'll do some specific, actually, there's a guy called Paul Bortlon, who's also been on the South Nations podcast.

And we sort of, maybe you should actually listen to it. You know all this. I listen to that. It's very interesting. Yeah. He talks about sort of the collaboration aspect of small B2B propositions and how they collaborate. And what they specifically do, I'm not going to mention too many names because it's, you know, they have a company called Music DNA, which is basically a radio monitoring company. So, they said, I can't remember the exact amount, but like they track 30,000 radio stations. There's a lot of interesting data there that they use, obviously, for their clients.

But this can be used in other different productizations. That could be a prediction of certain things. It could be artist tracking. There's so many products that they can use from the data they collect. So, they can say, okay, this is data we own through technology we've built over 10 years. We will share that data with you, and you will pay for it as a B2B proposition, and you can build your business upon the data that we have collected. So, they add a new revenue stream to their business, basically just reusing data they already have. Agreed. And that is really interesting.

And look, yeah, and there is another one, because, you know, we have in France an application that was working on that. And actually, we were working on that like five years ago. So, it's when you have your author rights, at the second you have NFTs, you can say that, okay, here is my city. Let's go like this. Here is my city, okay? As a fan, you are, I will sell to my community this part of the song. So, let's say 20% of this song, you as a fan are able to buy it, but you will buy everything from the song.

Why? Why it's possible. So, that's possible because you have a smart contract that fixes the traceability of this small party. And you, as a fan, will be till the end, you will have the royalties of this 20%. You see the gamification here? It's not just about, it's more than just doing music. It's really, it's onboarding your community and building a real relation with your fans. Why? We are seven billions here, seven billions in the world.

Four are in Asia. Okay. Where is your community? Where is, you have like thousands, I mean millions of songs every Friday in streamers. Okay. Where, where is your community? Fix this. Make gamification and you will find your community all around the world. Yeah. I think one of the, I'm sort of coming to the end of the episode because we've talked about so many important things. But one of the things that has been my concern, which I've spoken on the podcast as well together with a guy called Martin Berg, we sort of dissect the concept or the super ticket, which is basically this and sort of understanding.

But one of the big discussions we had is sort of the chicken and the egg scenario of adaptation. And, you know, people can go back and listen and make up their own mind. But the conclusion I took from it is like, this is going to happen. Like that there's no logical, practical, financial argument, maybe besides, you know, energy that we're slowly solving to this, this is in, in all ways a superior technology with clear solutions on a conceptual basis to big issues.

It is just, when will it happen? And I think for me, that is the most interesting things. Martin believes within, probably within the next five to 10 years, all productizations in this space will be on the blockchain. But what is your mindset or thoughts about this? You're, you said adaptability and like, it's, that's really important. It's things technically are going very, very super fast. I remember in 2020, 2022, each time we were talking, we were talking about blockchains, you know, it was the hype of NFT.

Ah, NFT, it's awesome. Okay, no, we're just below that. We are layer one. Yeah. And then people raised like 8 million, 10 millions. And some of these companies are dying now because they didn't have any use cases, but it was just a bet from VCs. Okay. Now you have the same, we have exactly the same today with AI. AI, you're pushing the door. Oh, do you have AI? Okay. Look, first, blockchain plus AI is the perfect combo.

Okay. Because traceability with creation is like, okay, there is a use case, a massive use case. We have already three AI applications that are joining all fit. Okay. Yeah. Um, but tomorrow the call, the quantic will come. So, and then after the quantic, something new will come. So if you want to, if you want to follow that, you will have to be really, uh, let's say, um, adaptable. You have to focus on every single, uh, new techs, but without losing yourself.

Techs, it's just a way to sell. That's all. Use it. Otherwise, someone else will do. Hmm. I'll actually have that as the last question today, because I think it's interesting. You know, AI, generative AI, traceability of training data is the biggest, um, talking point in the music industry right now. What is it about blockchain or maybe perhaps our feet in, in general, that's going to help, uh, address the traceability and re-numination to creators that AI, uh, generative AI companies are, uh, building upon?

Um, it's like, I have two points on that. The, when your song is written, when everything is written on a smart contract, when all the data are here and you can prove that everything is from you, it's done. So this is the way blockchain will secure and proof. Every information that you have written in at, at a time.

Then the point is, what is AI is, it's not something like in the universe AI, it's someone just put information, someone or the AI too, but someone put the information there and say that, okay, let's take these, that metadata and build something. The point is where this AI took this information, but at the moment that every information are in the blockchain, it's easy. That's why blockchain plus AI is a perfect combo for, for data.

It's very interesting what you're doing and I'm, I'm really excited to sort of follow this over the next few months. Uh, I think you're addressing a very big, um, issue. I love that the, that the benefit you said, uh, when I asked you why Alfie is the community, because there are so many technological things happening. And I think we do need a sense of like, okay, we're together in this, like this is an industry we love. Exactly. Uh, we're not gonna, we're not gonna choose a technology just based on pure sentiment, but what you're saying is there's technological, um, argumentations for building with Alfie, the interoperability, the sort of the, uh, the bridging between technologies, but what you can provide is a streamlined community verification process, iteration of protocols in order to make sure that we have a blockchain that is optimized for the music industry with the very specific problems that it presents, but also the very specific opportunities it presents.

Yeah. And I think that is a very strong argument. I just want to be clear here. Um, because maybe people ask how we are at the end of the month, we are eating. Um, this blockchain will be, as I said, a foundation based in Switzerland, completely open sourced. Okay. And we will build, uh, an agency that will explain to all the music actors, uh, why is Web3, why it's, it's very important. What made it at, what, why data is quite critical, why trustability and ownership is really important.

So the, the blockchain is for the music industry. It's open source. Everybody is able to build on it. It's not our own. We've put the idea. Okay. We've built the first steps, the first, yeah, the first steps, but join us, join your pro, your project, build the project. It's completely open source, join the evolution of music. So that's really interesting. Actually, I, I'm just going to ask a question about that because I've been thinking about it.

It's just where to put it in, in the episode. So, so what you're saying is, uh, this technology isn't a foundation in Switzerland, which means you don't own it. And your, your internal personal business incentive is building something that you know everything about and you provide the expertise of how to use the technology. Exactly. So we will have, we're focusing on, uh, um, we have something in the South Korea, in Middle East, in maybe in Miami and in France, just to, we have people there to explain everything about the technology and just to explain, to develop, but it will be something will be, it will be, uh, segregated, if I'm, let's say cut from the, uh, the, uh, the blockchain.

The blockchain will be fully open source with, uh, DAO and everything will be as a foundation there in Switzerland. Amazing. JC, it's been a great talk. Um, and I, I feel very, um, encouraged, uh, you guys are tackling a space that has so many issues with black box, with IP rights, with, uh, bureaucratic, uh, movements in, uh, deciding how data sets should be and, uh, some legacy technology and CMOs that are moving slow and nothing will be solved in a day.

But again, referencing back to the Martin Bell talk, uh, talk about chicken, the egg, you know, what comes first. It's hard to say, but it will happen. Um, I mean, it's already happened because you, I told you 1.3 billions. So it's not the question of if, if it is, it is, that's only the market. Yeah. That's all right. Thank you, JC. Um, this was a pleasure. We'll talk soon. Me too. Yeah. Thank you, Jacob.