The Unconventional Journey as a Music Entrepreneur

Benjamin

I think it's going to be, you can flex the muscles the most, like anonymously. Yeah, so, I don't think the waist made me look more fatter than what I am, so I think it's better with just clean, slightly. Uh, okay, cool, yeah. Good. We're doing something interesting today. Hi Benjamin. Hello Jacob. Um, we're doing an episode that I wish I had other podcasts do. Yeah. Which does feel a tiny bit narcissistic, but I'll do it anyways.

Jakob

It's an episode about me. Yeah. And because the way I come from it, I've been listening to podcasts for so long and I very often miss out who is the narrator? Like who's this person interviewing other people and what is the lenses that he uses in order to present this podcast? And I think by now there'll be a lot of episodes out that's also about founders. And I think it would be weird not to tell about my own journey, but also my personal journey, just so you can understand.

Benjamin

And I think it would be weird not to tell about my open journey, but also my personal journey, just so you can understand what are the lenses I'm talking about. And the fun thing about you is you've been in the company for around two months, but we have pretty much the same communication style. We think you're very alike to some degree. And therefore I thought it would be very natural for you to be part of this interview process, whatever we call it. But first of all, Benjamin, can you just briefly explain who you are?

Jakob

What are the lenses I'm talking about? I agree. And the fun thing about you is you've been for the company for around two months, but we have very much the same communication style. We think very alike to some degree. And therefore I thought it would be very natural for you to be a part of this interview process, whatever we call it. But first of all, Benjamin, could you just briefly explain who you are? So this is in the context of why I've chosen you. Yeah, yeah. I'm coming, kind of coming out of the shadows here a little bit. But.

Benjamin

Yeah, I'm coming kind of coming out of the shadows here a little bit. But yeah, no. So my name is Benjamin. I go by Ben Alexander. I'm an artist and a producer. And I also work at Capella doing various things. So it's, I would say that my, my passion in life is music and I've kind of chosen to focus on the music segment and the music industry and

Jakob

Yeah, no, so my name is Benjamin. I go by Ben Alexander. I'm an artist and a producer and I also work at Capella doing various things so it's I would say that my passion in life is music and I've kind of chosen to focus on the music segment in the music industry and yeah, so hopefully I make good music and that's pretty much what I do. Yeah. Yeah

Benjamin

Yeah, so hopefully I make good music and that's pretty much what I do.

Jakob

And what you're slowly transitioning into in the company is a very central around the business at large. Currently, right now, I'm kind of sitting as the finance manager, so I'm calculating and breaking numbers and cracking numbers, which is an orthodox thing for maybe an artist to do. But I enjoy it. So, yeah, now we're kind of slowly moving more towards, as you say, a little bit more administrative roles and so forth. And I think that's going to be a very interesting journey. Yeah.

Benjamin

Yeah, so I mean currently right now I'm kind of sitting as the finance manager, so I'm calculating and breaking numbers and cracking numbers, which is an orthodox thing for maybe an artist to do, but I enjoy it. So yeah, now we're kind of slowly moving more towards, as you say, a little bit more administrative roles and so forth, and I think that's gonna be a very interesting journey.

Jakob

But obviously, you know, I'm going to let you sort of set the scene and ask the questions. But Capella right now is a startup in itself. And we have talked a bit about it with some founders episodes. We've called them where we talked about sort of evaluating our journey and who we are as people with the original founders. But there's, of course, one person who's very central to not only this podcast, but also Capella in general. And that's me. So I would like to give the listeners the opportunity for those who are interested. So know me a bit more.

Benjamin

Yeah, sure.

Jakob

How would you approach talking about that? Well, I mean, it's interesting because I know you on a personal level to some degree, because we have crossed paths. But this is interesting for me as well, because I haven't really known you that well, you know? And there's a lot of things that I would like to ask you and kind of figure out from your journey and so forth. So this will be equally interesting to me as it will hopefully for the listener.

Benjamin

Well, I mean, it's interesting because I know you on a personal level to some degree, because we have crossed paths. But I this is interesting for me as well, because I haven't really known you that well, you know, and there's a lot of things that I would like to ask you and kind of figure out, you know, from your journey and so forth. So this will be equally interesting to me, as it will hopefully for the listener. And yeah, so one of the things that I'm interested in is like, first of all, you're from Denmark. And now we're sitting in a studio in Stavanger, and we're sitting here with Capella, we're sitting here with this podcast and all of these things. First of all, like, how did you, why did you come to Stavanger? What led you from Denmark to this place, out of all places?

Jakob

And yeah, so one of the things that I'm interested in is like first of all, you're from Denmark and now we're sitting in a studio in Stavanger. Yeah and we're sitting here with Capella. We're sitting here with this podcast and all these things. First of all, like how did you why did you come to Stavanger? What led you from? Denmark this place out of all places well, first of all, the very simple answer is I met a very nice Norwegian girl and we had a couple of kids and she had lived in Denmark for 10 years um and her plan was originally just to be there for a couple of years and then she met me and she stayed not just for me but like part of that was it but we've always agreed to move back and for me that's sort of been scary also because you know uh i've you know the last 12 years been pretty set on that i want to do music and Stavanger and Brune where we live now which is a small city out of the countryside famous for music um and it was with a lot of you know desperation that i moved here uh like okay what's going to happen with my industry and um and my career um but i came here because of that but i've also had a like let's call it a very life with a lot of experiences so it wasn't so scary i was pretty sure i was going to figure it out but i didn't really have any plans of what that would look like yeah so i mean kind of starting

Benjamin

But I came here because of that. Yeah.

Benjamin

Yeah. So, I mean, kind of starting, you're coming to Stavanger and you're, you're getting introduced to the city and you're noticing that there are certain challenges, many great things, but there's also certain challenges. As per, for example, you know, like the music industry is not, it's not like universally, it's a huge thing here. So it's a little bit more segmented. How did you kind of start to set up in terms of finding the right people for a Capella?

Jakob

You're coming to Stavanger and you're getting introduced to this city and you're noticing that there are certain challenges, many great things, but there's also certain challenges. As per, for example, you know, like the music industry is not, it's not like universally it's a huge thing here. So it's a little bit more segmented. How did you kind of start to set up in terms of finding the right people for Capella coming here with, I don't know if you knew people here from before? No.

Benjamin

Coming here with, I don't know if you knew people here from before, you know, that is a process, that is a little bit of a complicated process.

Jakob

Well, that is a process. That is a little bit of a complicated process. I think I've always been, let's call it relatively eccentric and maybe had a poor sense of realism, that I was sort of projecting what could happen in the future as like, absolutely that's going to happen. So when I moved here, I had like sort of this approach that I'm just going to know everyone in the music industry. My first contact with a guy called Stein Bielan, who's also on this podcast, who's fairly influential in the Norwegian music scene. And he sort of introduced me to, I would say, maybe five different people. And from there, I was just like, who are they friends with? Like research and websites, who's in the industry? And before I moved here, I think I had 25 digital coffees with different people. Just sort of figure out like, who are you? And I think people found it very random. And when I actually moved here, I did something that I think was

Benjamin

Yeah.

Jakob

Quite provocative to people, that in hindsight was provocative, is that I, you know, those 25 industry people that I knew, I invited to a coffee here at Elfent, which is where we're sitting. We have our studios as well, close to our offices. And I was like, set them down and I laid out a three year plan for them, what I'm going to do for the city. And like, it's border, no, it's not even borderline arrogant. It is arrogant. But,

Benjamin

To the fence, which is where we're seeing the Neva Studios across from as well. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, set them down and I'll lead out to a three-year placement. But I'm going to do it for the city. And like, it's more to, no, it's not a portal idea. I mean, it's argument. But. I mean, it's ambitious. It depends on how you look at it. But yeah, yeah. I can't exactly remember what I said. But I can sort of paraphrase it by myself. And I say, I play.

Jakob

But I... I mean, it's ambitious. I didn't know how you look at it, but yeah. And I can't exactly remember what I said, but I sort of paraphrasing myself when I say I believe that Stavanger by 2025 can be one of Norway's new music cities. So that was like a five-year plan. And then within three years, I'm going to build collaboration and people are going to experience the network of music in the city differently. And I've been a piece of that puzzle, but I would say not just because of me, but... Obviously, anything you're protecting to life is not just because of you. But because of that vision, I believe things were put into works that right now, three years later has happened. Stavanger is definitely not up there where it should be, but people are starting dreaming and they're collaborating. And we've had the opportunity to create a company here where we're pretty much the only company that focuses on commercializing music and actually make a living. And having an emphasis that started to make sense on a national scene. So to some degree I did do what I promised. But I would also say it sort of to some degree created a few enemies. Like, who is this weird guy to say that? Yeah, because that's an interesting thing because in my life I've traveled a lot. So I've lived certain places.

Benjamin

Yeah, because that's an interesting thing because in my life I've traveled a lot. So I've lived certain places. I kind of come out of Norway, both in Sjölderland. Make sure your microphone is at enough sound. Hello?

Jakob

Come out of Norway. Just make sure your microphone is having enough sound. Hello, hello? Just turn it a bit up.

Benjamin

Hello, hello. Yeah. Do we need to do this again? Okay. Yeah, so I mean, that's interesting that you're saying because for me, I have a background of traveling a lot. I didn't grow up in Norway in the same sense that most people do. So I mean, I grew up in Norway as a child, but later during my teenage years, I'm was fortunate enough to kind of live certain places around the world and

Jakob

Hello. Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. Do we need to do this again? No, because it will align itself. I just need to make sure. Yeah, so, I mean, that's interesting that you're saying because for me, I have a background of traveling a lot. I didn't grow up in Norway in the same sense that most people do. So, I mean, I grew up in Norway as a child, but later during my teenage years, I was fortunate enough to kind of live certain places around the world and...

Benjamin

One of the things that makes it a little bit tricky in Norway when you're coming in and trying to create something is obviously the famous Janteloven in a sense. The to those of you who are listening, you know, maybe some of you have heard of this, but it's kind of like an inside joke in the Scandinavian and, you know, socials where it's like there's this law that's called Janteloven, which basically means that you shouldn't think that you are better than us in a sense.

Jakob

One of the things that makes it a little bit tricky in Norway when you're coming in and trying to create something is obviously the famous Janteloven in a sense. The, and to those of you who are listening, you know, maybe some of you have heard of this, but it's kind of like a inside joke in the Scandinavian socials where it's like there's this law that's called Janteloven, which basically means that you shouldn't think that you are better than us in a sense.

Benjamin

And it's not like the Norwegian society is based solely on that, not at all, but it can, you can touch upon it sometimes. And so did you feel that? Yeah.

Jakob

And it's not like the Norwegian society is based solely on that, not at all, but you can touch upon it sometimes. And so, do you feel that? I would say all the time. All the time. And it's definitely been a challenge for me. And it's not because I have especially high thoughts about myself, but I do have very big hopes for what I can create. If that makes sense. And that's definitely been an issue. But the context for that is I grew up in a family where that was lacking.

Benjamin

It's nothing to do with the challenge of me. And it's not because I have especially high thoughts about myself, but I do have very big hopes for what I can create. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. And that's definitely been an issue. But the context for that is I grew up in a family where that was lacking, in a sense. They didn't really have any Yentelo in them. And that in their life has also created some issues.

Jakob

In a sense. They didn't really have any Yentelo in them. And that in their life has also created some issues and problems, I believe. But as an entrepreneur, I think you need to be a bit crazy. I think you need to be a bit delusional about what you can achieve. So I've also been relatively unapologetic about it. I tried... I try to be very respectful when it comes to, you know, when sometimes that can be perceived as arrogance. So I try not to steer into that because I am not arrogant. But it can definitely be perceived for it. But as an entrepreneur, you need to speak loud. You need to dream big. You need to proclaim it. You need to, you know, almost manifest it. And that's difficult in no way. But it's always felt natural to me because of my upbringing and my parents. My brother is also pretty much like that. So I've sort of accepted that I won't be accepted fully because of it, but I also have a pretty good understanding that if it's something I compromised on, then that would negatively affect the company. Yeah. I get what you're saying. And I think, I mean, I mean, there's a lot of cultural things going on here, you know?

Benjamin

So I sort of accepted that I won't be accepted fully because of it, but I also have a pretty good understanding that if it's something I compromise on, then that would negatively affect the company.

Benjamin

I mean, there's a lot of cultural things going on here, you know, and especially when you're coming from a family, which you're studying that, you know, didn't necessarily have a lot of that. You were brought up, I would assume, and correct me if I'm wrong, you were brought up in an environment where you were more encouraged to probably think bigger or to dream bigger or to be that guy who, you know,

Jakob

And especially when you're coming from a family which you're stating that, you know, didn't necessarily have a lot of that. You were brought up, I would assume, and correct me if I'm wrong, you were brought up in an environment where you were more encouraged to probably think bigger or to dream bigger or to be that guy who, you know, wouldn't pay too much attention to the current structures and be like, I want to create new structures. I want to create stuff that's innovative and cool and new.

Benjamin

Wouldn't pay too much attention to the current structures and be like, I wanna create new structures. I wanna create stuff that's innovative and cool and new and kind of set new foundations and be that guy. Yeah, I mean, it was a combination of two things. It was a combination of maybe being ambitious and I can tell you a bit about that how maybe.

Jakob

And kind of set new foundations and be that guy. Yeah, and I did grow up with that, but it was a combination of two things. It was a combination of maybe being overly ambitious, and I can tell you a bit about that, how maybe for a couple of generations, my family have been overly ambitious. But it's also because I grew up in a religious context that is very much, let's call it Pentecostal to some degree, where there's a narrative that you are...

Jakob

Uh, chosen. That sounds very weird to say. And I don't, I believe in that narrative, everyone can be chosen, but it's definitely not something like, you encourage to think about yourself as someone special in God's eyes. And even then that's not something I'm projecting myself into these days as much. It's, if you already have a mindset where you don't have as much Yandlo, that can like really take over and say, well, I am special, you know. I'm supposed to do great things. And sort of that religious upbringing has definitely limited the amount of Yendolo I've had. But then also both my mother and my mother's father have been super vocal about stuff in life. My mother's father was a priest who was super vocal in media about religion at a state church and that had for many, many years and had some big consequences in his career.

Benjamin

State church and that's for many years now has had big consequences in his career and was sort of over from the state. Yeah, I see what you mean. Over from what he spoke about and how he was a politician and been active in...

Jakob

Was sort of, let's call it, overthrown by the state from what he spoke about. And my mom has been a politician and been active in media and news outlets and all that kind of stuff. So come from a family that's been very outspoken about stuff. One of the things that I've chosen to do is I like to be outspoken, but only about specific things that matters to me and that I'm choosing to be very little outspoken about things that I believe is not my core line of interest. I don't speak a lot about religion. I don't speak a lot about politics because I think that's where my family comes from. And I've seen the good things, but also the very many bad things that can come from that and how distancing it can be from different people. Yeah. I've noticed that. I've noticed that when you and I have had conversations that there are certain topics, especially politics and religion, that you kind of withdraw a little bit from. Yeah. Which makes sense because there are in a sense controversial subjects and it's also...

Benjamin

They can come to that and how distantly it can be from different people. Yeah. I've noticed that. I've noticed that when we, when you and I have had some conversations, that you, there are certain topics, especially politics and religion, that you kind of withdraw a little bit from, which makes sense because there are, in a sense, controversial subjects. And it's also, yeah, as you say, it can create a little bit of havoc at times.

Jakob

Yeah, as you say, it can create a little bit of havoc at times. Yeah, and then it reserves my opinions for something that matters. So if I would have outspoken opinions about a lot of things, then... Let me put it the other way. If I only speak about things that really matters, people will listen when I speak. But if I speak too much about too many different things, the weight of what I say is less, in my opinion. No, but I think that's a human thing.

Benjamin

Things, then... No, let me put it another way. If I only speak about things that really matter, people will listen when I speak. But if I speak too much about too many different things, the weight of what I say is less in my opinion. Yeah. No, but I think that's a human thing. You know. But it's...

Jakob

But it's, um, okay. So just kind of take me a little bit through here. Okay. So you're coming to Stavanger, you're meeting these people, you're setting it up. You, you're setting up the meeting here at the Lefam and you're talking to these, did you feel, because that meeting in itself is quite interesting that you're inviting all of these people. It's a very un-Norwegian thing to do. Yeah. Super. Yeah. Because Norwegians, they don't do that. Um, you know, it's all about who you know, and all that kind of stuff. So that I would say.

Benjamin

Okay, so just kind of take me a little bit through here. Okay, so you're coming to Stavanger, you're meeting these people, you're setting it up, you're setting up the meeting here at the Lefante and you're talking to these. Did you feel, because that meeting in itself is quite interesting that you're inviting all of these people, it's a very un-Norwegian thing to do. Yeah, because Norwegians, they don't do that. You know, it's all about who you know and all that kind of stuff. So that, I would say, is it correct if I'm saying that it's more of an American approach, I would say, maybe? Yeah.

Jakob

Is it correct if I'm saying that it's more of an American approach? I would say maybe. Oh, a hundred percent. Like I, I very much love the Scandinavian society and all the benefits that comes, but of that's called this go-getter mentality. I'm definitely more American. Yeah. So how did you, did you experience like that there was a positive kind of enforcement when you were sitting at that table from the people or were they all just like, what are we doing here? And who's this guy? And, you know,

Benjamin

And all the benefits that comes. But that's called this go-gamer mentality. I'm definitely more American. Yeah, so how did you experience that there was a positive kind of enforcement when you were sitting at that table from the people, or were they all just like, what are we doing here, and who's this guy? I would say no. Yeah. I would say it's primarily negative for people, but very, very positive for me. So it wouldn't be.

Jakob

I would say no. I would say it was primarily negative like for the people and But very positive for me. So I wouldn't be without it And what I mean with negative is like the three years I've been here and been doing business I've been a proactive person all the time which means no one has Proactively out of the way reached out to me in order to support my cause it's only been opposite And I don't necessarily think it's because that meeting was a bad thing, but it didn't, it didn't lead to any measurable positive thing per se. But what it did do is it did hold myself accountable to my ambitions. And for me, that's, that's what I needed. Like I don't, I can prove them. I don't want to say prove them wrong over time, but I can, I can prove my worth over time and have people doubt me in the meantime. I have no problem with that. Yeah. Do you get fueled by that?

Benjamin

Yeah. Do you get fueled by that? Like, do you? Because some people, you know, you have characters out there, like, for example, like David Goggins is an interesting character, right? This military guy who's just risen up and he's all over the social media right now. He's like this, he workouts all the time and he confronts pain. And while he's jogging and doing these insane marathons, he's listening to audio tapes of his haters, like telling him that he's a piece of shit and he's not worth anything or whatever. And that kind of fuels him

Jakob

Like, do you... Because some people, you know, you have characters out there, like, for example, like, David Goggins is an interesting character, right? This military guy who's just risen up and he's all over the social media right now. He's like this work... He workouts all the time and he confronts pain. And while he's jogging and doing these insane marathons, he's listening to audio tapes of his haters. Okay. He's like telling him that he's a piece of shit and he's not worth anything or whatever. And that kind of fuels him to just continue to confront and...

Benjamin

To confront and progress and some people are wired like that. Would you say that you are kind of like, are you affected by people who work against you in the sense that you start self-doubting or is it more like, I'm gonna prove them wrong, I'm gonna, you know, this is actually almost good for me because, yeah. It's an interesting question and I can try to give the answer.

Jakob

And progress and some people are wired like that. Would you say that you are kind of like, are you affected by people who work against you in the sense that you start self-doubting or is it more like, I'm gonna prove them wrong. I'm gonna, you know, this is actually almost good for me because yeah. It's an interesting question and I can try to give an answer but it's maybe a bit complicated. Yeah, it's very personal. No, but I'll definitely answer it.

Benjamin

Maybe a bit complicated. Yeah, it's very personal. It's very personal. I'll definitely answer this. I think one of the things that really bothered me is achievement and recognition. And it sounds stupid to say, but I come from a place where I was definitely not that popular.

Jakob

I think one of the things that really matters to me is achievement and admiration. And that sounds super weird to say, but I come from a place, well a childhood where I was definitely not the popular one and was definitely told that by many kids. And also maybe having... being overly sensitive and also maybe my family not understanding that to a big degree, I've always felt like the odd one out. Always, still due to this very day. What I did perceive that as when I was a kid as a very negative thing. I've really turned around to see that as a super positive thing. But in the process of still being obsessed about achievement and acknowledgement and admiration to some sense.

Benjamin

But in the process of still being obsessed about achievement and acknowledgement and aberrations in some sense, I do thrive and be the underdog because by being the underdog and then winning at something, that is achievement itself. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. So it's not so much about people's opinions, it's more recognizing how they perceive me now.

Jakob

I do thrive on being the underdog because by being the underdog and then winning at something, that is achievement itself, if that makes sense. So it's not so much about people's opinions, it's more recognizing how they perceive me now and at what point people will perceive me different. And it's not the goal, it's the process of doing that. So I do fuel, I get fueled by people's doubt about me, not as a positive or negative thing, but more as an understanding of where do they think I am now. And then I can use that as, okay, so what do I need to do in order to get the next step in their eyes? But it's super contradictory because I don't really also put my self-worth on what they think. but I use them as an indicator towards myself where I'm actually am and where I think I am. Because the way that I work in general is I always have my head in the future. And one of the things that I believe that gives me a lot of drive is I don't perceive myself as the person I am now. I perceive myself the person I know I will be in the future and I'm heading towards. And.

Benjamin

But just if I can pick your brain a little bit about that precise statement, for example, which is, okay, so you're kind of living in the future, which is, I would say it's a more normal thing among entrepreneurs, because we're willing to, I would say, approach the delayed gratification in the sense that we suffer now and live tomorrow, in a sense.

Jakob

But just if I can pick your brain a little bit about that first best statement, for example, which is, okay, so you're kind of living in a future which is, I would say it's a more normal thing among entrepreneurs because we're willing to, I would say, approach the delayed gratification in the sense that we suffer now and live tomorrow in a sense. And but my question is

Benjamin

Um, and, but my question is, do you, um, has that created some challenges for you in the sense that you're always kind of like looking forward to or, or working towards the greater things and maybe not, um, understanding what's going on right, like right in front of you here and now. Yeah.

Jakob

Do you, has that created some challenges for you in the sense that you're always kind of like looking forward to or working towards the greater things and maybe not understanding what's going on right in front of you here and now? Yeah, no, it's, there's so many challenges. Yeah.

Jakob

At building something, you can have people in your work life that can compensate a bit for you living in the clouds in the future, which drives momentum, by the way. But you can't ignore the present. And you know, Capron to now have to some degree a prioritized future over present, which brings its complications. What we're working on right now is because we have more money. Yeah.

Benjamin

Yeah.

Jakob

We have more revenue, we have more structure and understanding, we're bringing in people like yourself, where your job is being in the present. And, you know, Taj Dekaan, who's a general manager, his job is being in the past and the present. Like, what have we done and what are we doing right now to change? And then bring it towards the future goal that I have created, well, together with a lot of other clever people. So it's manageable.

Benjamin

Is his job is being in the past. Yeah. What have we done and what have we been right not to change and then bring it to.

Benjamin

So it's manageable in work life. In private, it's definitely harder. And I think me and my wife have been together for 10 years now, continuously working on my issues of living in the future.

Jakob

Work life, in private it's definitely harder and I think me and my wife has been together for 10 years now, continuously working on my issues of living in the future. I think she also loves me because I am like that but there's a lot of problems with not necessarily per default being present in the present and I need to force myself into it.

Benjamin

I think she also loves me because I am like that. But there's a lot of problems with not necessarily, per default, being present in the present. And I need to force myself into it. But I forget it really.

Jakob

But I forget it really quickly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, it's an interesting thing. In a sense, I can relate to it because it's... If you are in a creative space as well, if you are a creative and you have that mindset where it's like, I wanna do big things.

Benjamin

Because it's, if you kind of, if you are in a creative space as well, if you are a creative and you have that mindset where it's like, I wanna do big things, you're not sitting there spending your time and focus and energy on what's the current challenge today. You're thinking, you know, all of these, like you're thinking that this is the place that I wanna get in five years and six years, that's what I wanna be.

Jakob

You're not sitting there spending your time and focus and energy on what's the current challenge today. You're thinking, you know, all of these, like you're thinking that this is the place that I want to get in five years and six years. That's what I want to be. If I drop the ball maybe there or in right in front of me there, in the big picture, it doesn't matter. And it's a challenging thing because you, you...

Benjamin

If I drop the ball maybe there or right in front of me there, in the big picture, it doesn't matter. And it is a challenging thing because you have to have some sort of attention span towards the present because without the present, you're not gonna get into the future. So it is a bit of a challenge. But...

Jakob

You have to have some sort of attention span towards the present because without the present you're not going to get into the future. Yeah. So it is a bit of a challenge. But a little bit back to what you were saying regarding the achievement and the kind of the recognition for your work and so forth. Can you give me like a story, a Capella story where you felt that, where you had some sense of like, you know, now I did something cool and I can feel it.

Benjamin

A little bit back to what you were saying regarding the achievement and the recognition for your work and so forth. Can you give me a story, Incappella's story, where you felt that? Where you had some sense of, like, you know, now I did something cool and I can feel it. Yeah, good question, but that's an issue with me. I never really get there. Oh, I see. You're always chasing the carrot. I always chase the carrot, but...

Jakob

Yeah, well, good question, but that's an issue with me is I never really get there. Oh, I see. You're always chasing the carrot. Uh, always chasing the carrot, but, and that's how it is. Like I never really see my achievements. I can feel a small win for a couple of days and that's it. But that's kind of what I'm asking for. But no, not really. Like it's, but, and I recognize that, that I never really get satisfied with my results.

Benjamin

But that's how it is. I never really see my achievements. I can feel a small wind for a couple of days, and that's it. No, but that's kind of what I'm asking for, yeah. But no, not really. And I recognize that, that I never really get satisfied with my results. But what I've done, I've sort of accepted that premise. And then what I've spent the last, I'll say,

Jakob

But what I've done, I've sort of accepted that premise. And then what I've spent the last, I would say year and a half on, two years on, is just. enjoying the journey in itself. Because I know that I would never get the gratification that I need in order to be happy because of the achievements, even though it sounds very, you know, opposite of what I just said 10 minutes ago. So I crave the achievement, I crave the recognition, but also know when I get it, I don't, I can't hold on to it. So it's like

Benjamin

I crave achievement, I crave the recognition, but also when I get it, I don't, can't hold onto it. So it's like chasing something and then when I get it, I don't appreciate it anymore. No, but yeah. So what I'm doing right now, I'm doing on how do I get too much joy from the journey and sort of ignore that part of my personality that craves achievement to some degree.

Jakob

Chasing something and then when I get it I don't appreciate it anymore. So I'm focusing right now on how do I get as much joy from the journey and sort of ignore that part of my personality that craves achievement to some degree. But it makes sense. It makes sense because we can't really like if that's the thing that's the thing again like what actually makes you happy in a sense because

Benjamin

But it makes sense. It makes sense because we can't really like, that's the thing again, like what actually makes you happy in a sense. Because if you're satisfied with a little bit of recognition and a little bit of achievement, you're not thinking big enough, you know?

Jakob

If you're satisfied with a little bit of recognition and a little bit of achievement, you're not thinking big enough, you know, you know, because then you're satisfied with that. And a lot less an entrepreneur. Yeah. As an entrepreneur. Yeah. But it's like, and this is where you have like different people and different personalities and so forth and what actually motivates people and actually creates happiness and satisfaction for them. But at least I would, I would assume or interpret that a person like yourself would feel like, you know, it's the chase of perfection.

Benjamin

You know, because then you're satisfied with that. And a lot, and I mean, yeah, as an entrepreneur, yeah. But it's like, and this is where you have like different people and different personalities and so forth and what actually motivates people and actually creates happiness and satisfaction for them. But at least I would assume or interpret that a person like yourself would feel like, you know, it's the chase of perfection and that chase of the perfection that is the.

Jakob

That chase of the perfection that is the perfection in itself anyway that you're never going to get fully satisfied in a sense which is a challenge but it's also the drive that makes you keep pushing yeah you know yeah and no i agree and for me perfection is not the right word uh but for me impact is the right word yeah um but yeah it's the same thing um because i definitely think you're probably closer to perfectionist than i am well with

Benjamin

Perfection in itself in a way that you're never going to get fully satisfied in a sense Which is a challenge, but it's also the drive that makes you keep pushing, you know

Benjamin

Yeah, yeah.

Benjamin

Well, within certain things. Certain things. Like the stuff that I'm passionate about, I definitely am. But I've also gotten some, you know, some stress from my girl as well regarding this because it's like, you know, in some aspects, for example, like at home, I have my home studio where I have all my music equipment and my computers and all that stuff. And I'm very strict about like no one can get close to that space except for me. Can't even clean around it.

Jakob

Yeah, within certain things. Yeah, yeah. Like the stuff that I'm passionate about, I definitely am. But I've also gotten some, you know, some stress from my girl as well, regarding this, because it's like, you know, in some aspects, for example, like at home, I have my home studio where I have all my music equipment and my computers and all that stuff. Yeah. And I'm very strict about like no one can get close to that space except for me. Yeah. I can't even clean around it. I have to clean it. Yeah. Because I'm so...

Benjamin

I have to clean it because I'm so afraid that something is going to happen and some cable is going to do this or that and then the files are gone and all that stuff. So I have these like small little OCD things regarding that particular space, but everything else when it comes to like stress and pressure and chaos, I don't get stressed out about it. You know?

Jakob

That something is going to happen and some cable is going to do this or that and then files are gone and all that stuff. So I have these like small little OCD things regarding that particular space. Everything else when it comes to like stress and pressure and chaos, I don't get stressed out about it. Yeah. But the things you're saying there is absolutely why I think... I know an entrepreneur like me needs people who have those aspects of them because...

Benjamin

Well, I know in the industry, we need people who have those aspects of them, because I would say I'm probably the opposite of a perfectionist. I neglect perfection, and it's not because I haven't been telling you that's good enough. It's more like, well, that's good enough for me to take the next step, if that makes sense. Yeah. So it's a very pragmatic approach to life and to building business.

Jakob

I would say I'm probably the opposite of a perfectionist. I neglect perfection. And it's not because I have a mentality that's good enough. It's more like, well, that's good enough for me to take the next step, if that makes sense. So it's a very pragmatic approach to life and to building business. But reality is that some things need to be perfect. And something needs to be the best in order to, you know.

Benjamin

But the reality is that some things need to be perfect. And something needs to be the best in order to, you know, the best communication needs to deliver our clients. We can do a production that's good enough, that's not good enough. Then it needs to be perfect in order to have consistent quality of contents and referring.

Jakob

You know, the best communication we need to deliver our clients when we do a production, like good enough is not good enough. Then you need to be perfect in order to have consistent flow of clients and recurring, recurring revenue. Um, but that's sort of have impact. Yeah. But, but it's not my job to make that happen, if that makes sense. So, yeah, no, that's, uh, that's interesting. But okay. So just because again, I'm interested in hearing more, a little bit more about

Benjamin

And also to have impact. Yeah, but it's not my job to make that happen. If that makes sense. So. Yeah, no, that's interesting. But okay, so just because again, I'm interested in hearing more, a little bit more about like the real stories here. Yeah, it's important. Yeah, and it's like, okay, so you're done with this table and you're just then starting to progress. How did you find the people?

Jakob

Real stories here? Yeah, and go for it. Yeah. And it's like, okay, so you're done with this table, and you're still starting to progress. How did you find the people for Capella and sort them out? And were like, you know, these are the people that I want to work with. And you don't necessarily have to go all the way back to the early beginnings, but like, what are you looking for in personalities and in people when you are bringing them onto like the Capella ship, in a sense? I think looking back of it, I can tell you what we were looking for, but-

Benjamin

For Capella and sought them out and were like, these are the people that I wanna work with. And you don't necessarily have to go all the way back to the early beginnings, but what are you looking for in personalities and in people when you are bringing them onto the Capella ship in a sense?

Jakob

The reality of the moment was that just whoever wanted to join the cause of building business and style were welcome. And we burned on us that many times. Like there's a lot of people that were like, okay, you want to help building this? Come hang out the office, help us being association with us. And I would say, you know, five, six, seven people along their journey has definitely been wrong for us and done damage to our brand. And we've probably done damage to them. So I wish I could say that there's been a plan that hasn't. I think the approach we've had is much more like, let's just do whatever we think is right and then learn from our mistakes. So there hasn't been this very strategic set out journey like how to do it. And we definitely do that more now. But I would say that it's almost coincidental that Capella right now is becoming something that could be amazing.

Benjamin

So there hasn't been this very strategic set out journey like how to do it. And we definitely do it that way now. But I would say that it's almost coincidental that Capella right now is becoming something that could be amazing. It's not something that was going to be that good. And my movie has this guy I had, a company called Men's Music Group that I still work with and sort of right now sort of personally.

Jakob

It's not something that was from the get-go and when I moved here to savanga I had you know a company called mantic music group that I still work with that's sort of right now sort of personally with my attention part of big to decide Uh because of what's happening capilla Well, my plan was focusing my energy on that and this capilla thing was just something on the side a hobby thing to help Build savanga because I knew most likely i'm going to live for the next 20 30 40 50 years So let me at least do my part for building up a artist representation side of the business. Yeah, yeah. Cool. But it's like, okay, so then, I mean, how Capella is doing right now is definitely something that I would say, I mean, even though I started just a short while ago, I have followed Capella outside, and you know this, because we have crossed paths several times in various situations.

Benjamin

Yeah, cool. But it's like, okay, so, I mean, how Capella is doing right now is definitely something that I would say, I mean, even though I started just a short while ago, I have followed Capella outside, and you know this, because we have crossed paths several times in various situations. And as an outsider, and as, well, not even an outsider now, but as an outsider that I was,

Jakob

And as an outsider, and as, or not even an outsider now, but as an outsider that I was, I had heard of you guys and heard positive things out there, you know? And it's very, I think it's because it's very, when you're working within a company that has a big vision, you can get kind of incubated in a sense, you can get like eternal vision and you're not really understanding and like how are we viewed outside of these office spaces? How are people?

Benjamin

I had heard of you guys and heard positive things out there, you know, and it's very, I think it's because it's very, when you're working within a company that has, has a big vision, you can get kind of incubated in a sense. You can get like your tunnel vision and you're not really understanding and like how are we viewed outside of these office spaces? How are people, what do people know about us? Do they know what we do? Do they know who we are? All that stuff.

Jakob

What do people know about us? Do they know what we do? Do they know who we are and all that stuff? But I think as much, there's also been a lot of negative things about us. Yeah, and I haven't heard them myself because I don't live in the city. I live like half an hour outside the city. But it's been, yeah, there's been positive things, but there's also been equally negative things because our focus has never been controlling a narrative. Maybe a bit more now. But it's been a result of just

Benjamin

Yeah.

Benjamin

But it's been a result of just doing whatever felt right in the moment. Yeah. And we did a lot of things wrong. I think we're going to have to do it again.

Jakob

Doing whatever felt right in the moment. And we did a lot of things wrong. I think one of the things that we did is, in the start, we overcommitted emotionally to artists, not necessarily in what we needed to do for them, but like how present we were and couldn't sustain that over time. And the artists misunderstood what our actual role was. I think there's also a lot of people who maybe in the process have maybe been very ungrateful.

Benjamin

We, in the start, we overcommitted emotionally to artists, not necessarily in what we needed to do for them, but like how present for, and couldn't sustain that over time, and the artists misunderstood what our actual world was. I think there's also a lot of people who maybe in the process have maybe been very ungrateful, like us, without taking out salary for two years, like pouring our hearts into a project, and then if things are not performing according to what we hoped, they're like,

Jakob

Like us without taking out salary for two years, like pouring our hearts into a project and then if things are not performing according to what we hoped, they're like, well, freak you guys. And I think that's been tough. So we haven't had an active pursuit of controlling the narrative. So some people have spoken nicely about us. Some people have spoken poorly about us. And I think it's a result of not protecting a brand, but we were never in a position before now to even work with it. No, but I, again, like, I, you know, coming into this company, I have seen, I have understood that these have been challenges. But before I got into it, I didn't, I didn't hear a lot of bad stuff. I really didn't. It might have been the people that I were with and all that stuff, but I didn't hear a lot of bad things. That was also one of the reasons why I wanted to work with you guys. Yeah.

Benjamin

No, but again, coming into this company, I have seen, I have understood that these have been challenges. But before I got into it, I didn't hear a lot of bad stuff. I really didn't. It might've been the people that I were with and all that stuff, but I didn't hear a lot of bad things. And that was also one of the reasons why I wanted to work with you guys. I kind of got in touch with you and I was like, this is a company that's pretty cool.

Jakob

Like I kind of got in touch with you and I was like, you know, this is a company that's pretty cool. These guys are doing cool things and have great artists and they're trying to do something interesting here. And I want to be a part of it. You know? Yeah. So, yeah. I had a conversation with an artist a couple of days ago and

Benjamin

These guys are doing cool things, they have great artists, and they're trying to do something interesting here, and I wanna be a part of it, you know? So, yeah.

Jakob

He's at a point where like he's been really happy with the collaboration. Of course it could be that we don't only focus on artists, but that's been sort of our starting point and we're working on structuring the company and you guys will hear about it in a few months, but we very much work with artists, but he was like I need to take a break working with you guys. He really enjoyed the work until now and he's also earning a good amount of money, but because of like there's some things in the structure of what you're doing. There's just not clear enough. And I just need to make sure that I myself understand fully what you guys are doing. And the reason why I'm saying this in the podcast is even though we're growing, we're winning at many aspects. And we, I would say we're clever and good at what we do. We also need to pay, uh, pay the price for previous mistakes and give ourselves the time to fix up on them in order for the people's perception of our work to match our actual current work. If that makes sense.

Benjamin

Yeah, it does. And I'm just going to tell a bit more about myself in that regard, is I am a person who loves novel things, new things. And I've been a bit.

Jakob

Yeah, it does. And, you know, I'm just going to voluntarily tell a bit more about myself in that regard is I am a person who loves novel things, new things, and I have a very hard time staying interested when things get normal. Yeah. Which is amazing.

Benjamin

Staying interested when things get normal. Which is amazing if you have the ventures to you, which this is becoming, because I can put my whole heart into new projects and new founders and train them and have vision and see synities and everything that's challenging and hard, but we love it.

Jakob

If you have a venture studio, which this is becoming because, you know, I can put my whole heart into new projects and new founders and train them and have vision and see synergies and everything that's challenging and hard. I love it. But with things like, okay, now you put in system and processes and do this over and over again and make sure that the clients and customers and artists are happening. I need to draw myself back, which means previously, I've put myself too central in a lot of relationships, where because of my almost obsessive need for normal things, need to draw a bit out of. It could be an artist where I've been a very part, you know, close part of the A&R team, but when this becomes, you know, then we build this over time and I draw up and focus my energy in someone else, then this artist is confused, like, so where are you now? Like, you know, I'm still happy with, you know, the other person I'm talking with, but you've been here from the start and now you're not. So what's the issue? And that's been my whole life, is I've...

Benjamin

Yeah.

Jakob

I have let people down because I get bored. That's what we're working with right now because in that way of working, which is very not optimal for most aspects of life, there's some very, very sickly good qualities. And that is being very, very good at understanding what happens next.

Jakob

But the company can't be built around me alone to any degree. And we try to find the wisdom right now, like how much can I be a part of a new process without making me the center of the relationship? Yeah. Well, that will, again, and I'm kind of swearing in church for you now, but that would require a structure. Yeah. So it's kind of the, because I know what you're saying in the sense that.

Benjamin

Of the relationship. Yeah, yeah. Well, that will, again, and I'm kind of swearing in church for you now, but that would require a structure. So, you're kind of, it's kind of the, because I know what you're saying in a sense that you need to be in an environment that constantly kind of challenges you. And if it doesn't, if it becomes too predictable, too structured, too, yeah.

Jakob

You need to be in an environment that constantly kind of challenges you. And if it doesn't, if it becomes too predictable, too structured, too, yeah, then it becomes boring. Yeah. And the same way. Yeah. By the way. Yeah. Um, so, so for me, it's like, it's the same thing. I can get very like intense when I'm sitting down with people, if there's a particular project that has some challenges or there's something that needs to be created, whatever, oh my God, I'll sit down and I'll be super intense and super do it and dedicated and all that stuff.

Benjamin

Then it becomes boring. I'm the same way, by the way. So for me, it's like, it's the same thing. I can get very like intense when I'm sitting down with people, if there's a particular project that has some challenges or there's something that needs to be created, whatever. Oh my God, I'll sit down and I'll be super intense and super do it and dedicated and all that stuff. But once it's kind of been done with, I move on to the next thing. I don't wanna...

Jakob

But once it's kind of been done with, I move on to the next thing. I don't wanna, I'm not too heavy into the whole following through with that project after everything is safe and structured and it's going automated. But is there something that you're kind of looking for right now, for example, when we have some new people at Capella and all that stuff.

Benjamin

I'm not too heavy into the whole following through with that project after everything is safe and structured and it's going automated. But is this something that you're kind of looking for right now, for example, when we have some new people at Capella and all that stuff? This must have been in your mind when you're looking for these people.

Jakob

This must have been in your mind when you're looking for these people. What I'm figuring out now is it tends to be the best leaders are people who are opposite me when it comes to consistent leadership. So I would say people who have the opposite qualities of mine in general are the best people to manage things. So I would say I'm the opposite of a manager. And I would also say that I'm not a very qualified CEO outside of the context of this because I am obsessed with the music industry. I'm obsessed with entrepreneurship. I like music, but I'm obsessed with it. And that makes me good because I know so much, but I'm not good alone. It doesn't make sense. So I think in any other corporate setting, I would be a terrible CEO. Because you know most of the expectations of a traditional CEO is structure and reporting and blah unless you're in a creative start-up mentality kind of thing like you know. And I'm not comparing myself to these guys at all, but I'm much closer to like a Steve Jobs personality than I am to a Equinor, you know oil gas person. Yeah, yeah.

Benjamin

Well, yeah. It's a creative start-up mentality kind of thing. Yeah.

Benjamin

A Equinor, an oil-cast person. Yeah. So, like, yeah, that's the thing, because you're a creator. You create things, and then others manage what you've created. That's basically it, in a sense. That's basically it, but that is difficult to do. Because then you also...

Jakob

Yeah. And then others manage what you've created. Yeah. That's basically it. In a sense. That's basically it. But that is difficult to do. Because then you also need to outsource, I would say, the most important part of the business is, yes, you've started the car. Let's keep it running. Yeah. So I would say my job is easier than.

Benjamin

Important part of the business is, yes, you've started a car, let's keep it running. So I would say my job is easier than the other people's job in some sense. I don't think other people can do my job, but I would say it doesn't require a single consistency. And I might just be wrong about that.

Jakob

Than the other people's job in some sense. I'm not saying other people could do my job, but I would say it doesn't require the same level of consistency. And I might just be wrong about it. So I'm still in a journey, but.

Jakob

Um, I've, what I've done right is I've created a company that's centered around my lack of qualities. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. Because I know what I'm strong at and I'm really strong at those things. So I've managed to create a company around the things I miss. And I think that's the only thing that enables me to be a CEO right now. Yeah. I think so too. Uh, but it's going to be, it's going to be interesting to kind of the way forward.

Benjamin

What I've done right is I've created a company that's centered around my lack of qualities. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, because I know what I'm strong at, and I'm pretty strong at those things. Yeah. So I've managed to create a company around the things I miss. And I think that's the only thing that enables me to be a CEO right now. Yeah, yeah. I think so too. But it's gonna be interesting to kind of the way forward because Capella is kind of going in a direction right now where we're doing new things and not necessarily new things but we're kind of, as you say, we're learning from our mistakes and all that type of stuff. So it's gonna be interesting to see the road going forward. What would you, is, I'm not sure if I can ask this, but that's why I wanna ask it.

Jakob

Capella is kind of going in a direction right now where we're doing new things and not necessarily new things, but we're kind of, as you say, we're learning from our mistakes and all that type of stuff. Yeah. So it's going to be interesting to see the road going forward. What would you is, is I'm not sure if I can ask this, but I that's why I want to ask it. Go for it. Where is Capella in five years?

Benjamin

Where is Capella in five years?

Jakob

I don't know specifically where we'll be and the reason why I'm saying that is Kapila now is vastly different what it was one and a half years ago and We have a different understanding of ourselves now than we had six months ago So I don't have enough foresight to know But what I think will be is Will be a company that's earning more money than it spends that has a power to enable founders to build stuff in our ecosystem and have successfully launched multiple companies and ATSIS careers into the world. I definitely believe that's where we are. The size of that and the impact of that and the speciality and focus, I am not sure. But my primary goal with this company right now is giving us time. And what I mean by that is we're a company that spends more money than we earn. We've started to earn, I would say, starting to earn significant amounts of money for a new startup. But of course, we're spending more, which pretty much any startup would approach. But I'm going to stay in this company for the next 20, 25 years. Because this is everything I wanted it to be. It is my playground.

Benjamin

But I'm gonna stay in this company for the next 20 to 25 years. And because this is everything I wanted it to be. It is my playground. And if I can come to a place where we as a company earn more money than we spend, then we'd buy the position to have no...

Jakob

And if I can come to a place where we as a company earn more money than we spend, then we by definition have no runway or burn rate, which basically means we can continue over time. And if you give this team time, I believe in time, we'll create several things that are great that then will create the success. But so because when you're talking, what, what fascinates you?

Benjamin

Several things that then will create the success. So, because when you're talking, what fascinates, what is a little bit fascinating or interesting about this conversation is that you seem very self-reflective, which is uncommon, I would say, because at least in the people in my life that I've met.

Jakob

What is a little bit fascinating, what's interesting about this conversation is that you seem very self-reflective. Which is uncommon, I would say, because at least in the people in my life that I've met, to be like, communicate and actually talk about yourself in such an objective way. Where does that come from? Is that trained? Has it always been like that? Have you always... It comes from trauma. Yeah.

Benjamin

Um to be to like communicate and actually talk about yourself in such an objective way Where does that come from? Is that trained? Has it always been like that? Have you always? It comes from trauma. Yeah.

Jakob

Um, had, had some, let's call it wild experiences with extreme charismatic church, um, that left me in my own words, um, to some degree brainwashed. And struggled with that for a few years and realized when I was 20, that the way that I look at myself is something that I've been indoctrinated with. That is having real life consequences and is not positive to any extent. So I've been on a 10 year journey, pulling apart what that was. And I've obviously spoken to a lot of people, some therapists, a lot of mentors, and a lot to my wife, who is really freaking smart and sharp. And then I'm talking a lot to myself. So I have conversations with myself. And so I've spent 10 years trying to figure out how much was I brainwashed and to what degree. And that leaves you have continuously asking yourself questions about yourself, if that makes sense. Yeah. And it's a pretty big claim to say you've been brainwashed. Self-pityism or self-doubt? Self-evaluation.

Benjamin

Them and to what degree. And that means you have continuously asking yourself questions about yourself. If that makes sense. Yeah. And it's a pretty big claim. Self-criticism or self-doubt? Self-implication. I don't criticize myself.

Jakob

I don't criticize myself. I don't doubt myself. The reason why I don't criticize myself is the approach I have to myself is a word that I've really started using in 2023 is the word grace, which is basically understanding and forgiving real time. So when I do a mistake or if I do something wrong, I'm like, I recognize that was wrong. I recognized that was a mistake. I'm gonna change it, but I'm not gonna hit myself in the head right now because I'm on a journey. So that's how it works for me. So it's more self-evaluation than anything. It continuously invalidating my own moves and my own thoughts. And one of the things that I say that is maybe slightly. Arrogant is when people give me criticism, which I really welcome, is like you most likely can't say anything about me I haven't thought myself. Because I'm continuously in a self-evaluation process. It doesn't make me write. It just, I at least give me myself the time to think about my actions all the time. You know your lacks and you know your strengths in a way. And I'm in an active mode of receiving that information from myself or others. Yeah. This kind of, these kinds of conversations, right now we're sitting in a context where you and I are speaking at a podcast. Yeah.

Benjamin

Because I'm continuously in a self-impederation process. It doesn't make me right. It just, I at least give myself the time to think about my actions. You know your lacks and you know your strengths in a way. And then I'm in a passive mode of receiving that information. Yeah. But this kind of, these kinds of conversations, because right now we're sitting in a context where you and I are speaking at a podcast, which is, yeah, it kind of becomes a little bit like that, you know, where the conversation hits deep and all that stuff. But yeah, now we're sitting like, we're sitting in one of the studios here at Telefont, which is Capella's

Jakob

I forgot that for a second. Yeah, it kind of becomes a little bit like that, you know, when the conversation gets deep. Yeah. All that stuff. Yeah. But yeah, now we're sitting in one of the studios here at Telefonte, which is Catella's

Benjamin

Why this podcast? And I'm sure that you've probably given some insight to listeners before on this as to why you're doing this. But, you know, what up in all of this with Capella going on and everything, why take these, you know, put this out? Why set up these things?

Jakob

This podcast and I'm sure that you've you know you've probably given some insight to listeners before on this as to why you're doing this but you know what up in all of this with Capella going on everything why take these you know put this out why set up these things there's some outspoken reasons and then there's some hidden reasons that I'll make non-hidden well people can figure that out themselves. But the obvious reasons, which are the public reasons, are that we want to create a space where entrepreneurs can learn about the music industry with an entrepreneurship narrative. Reason number one. Reason number two is we want to brand ourselves as a company that is outspoken about this area. Because we work with founders to build companies in music industry. The most powerful reason is not the one I'm public with.

Benjamin

Yeah.

Jakob

And that is two reasons. This is one that I get an excuse to have conversations with thought leaders and entrepreneurs where they can have a friendly tone with me and like me. Yeah, yeah. And the second unspoken reason is that I'm positioning my own brand in association with other people's brands that positively affect how people in the industry perceive me.

Benjamin

Get an excuse to have conversations with thought leaders and entrepreneurs where they can have a friendly time with me and like me. Yeah, I get it. And the second possible reason is that I'm positioning my own brand in association with other people's brands that possibly...

Jakob

So that's four different reasons. And I think they're all good. And I don't think there's anything wrong in being outspoken about the personal reasons as well. If anything, that's a pretty entrepreneurial thing to do. Which is what this podcast is about. And so for me, the podcast in itself is an entrepreneurship journey that makes a whole lot of sense.

Benjamin

If anything, that's a pretty entrepreneurial thing to do. Which is what this podcast is about. So for me, the podcast in itself is a much richer journey than being this whole of sense. Hmm. Yeah.

Jakob

Yeah, it's cool, man. And I don't know, just like already with all the guests and all that stuff, you know, it's a very giving experience, at least for because music industry isn't exactly known for entrepreneurship in that sense. It's been like, at least the environments, at least, you know, is not as encouraging to think in those matters.

Benjamin

It's cool, man. And I don't know, just like already with all the guests and all that stuff, you know, it's a very giving experience, at least for, because music industry isn't exactly known for entrepreneurship in that sense. It's been like, at least the environments, at least, you know, is not as encouraging to... think in those manners, which is ironic, because it's an industry that is created by creatives. And we create music, and we make music, and we want to push the limits, we want to do all of those things. But at the same time, it's kind of like this little fishbowl, and you're free to roam around this fishbowl, but don't you dare start questioning the fishbowl. In a sense,

Jakob

Because even though, which is ironic, because it's an industry that is created by creatives and we create music and we make music and we want to be, we want to push the limits, we want to do all of these things, but at the same time you're not, it's kind of like this little fishbowl and you're free to roam around this fishbowl, but don't you dare start questioning the fishbowl, you know? In a sense, am I touching upon it and a little bit of the...

Benjamin

Am I touching upon it and a little bit of the challenge there?

Jakob

Yeah, I'm definitely frustrated with music industry like I'm frustrated with many people in general but you know Every single thing that we've done with Capella and with my adventures before Capella I've needed to fight for every single bit of it. And yes I've gotten help but only gotten help when I've asked for it continuously and annoyingly and every single person I think it's changing now people are getting more helpful out of their own Because they recognize what we do and like okay, I want to be a part of that or helping them So I think people are being much more generous with their time But until this point it's just I needed to fight for every single thing and there was nothing given and I think that's really frustrating Because like why? Why not as an industry be more generous to new people? Why do you need to be? Why do you need to sacrifice five years of your career with no pay? Well, because you need to build everything from scratch. You're not going to get any help. Yeah. I would chime in there and also say that, you know, the music industry is also a very high risk, high reward industry. Um, it's not, it's not a place where people are maybe used to, uh, like, you know, having a mediocre salary with the mediocre work and all that type of stuff.

Benjamin

Well, because you need to build everything from scratch. You're not gonna get any help. Yeah, and I would chime in there and also say that, the music industry is also a very high risk, high reward industry. It's not a place where people are maybe used to having a mediocre salary with a mediocre work and all that type of stuff. As artists, I would say, I'm taking it from the artist's perspective.

Jakob

As artists, I would say, I'm taking it from the artist's perspective. It's all about chasing that excellence and innovation and everything has to be unique and everything, which, which I personally do. I'm attracted to it. I like that. I like uniqueness and I liked it, but it creates challenges, as you say, where you kind of have to suffer a lot and take a lot of risks, um, and for a potential reward that might never come. Um, most likely will never come. Yeah.

Benjamin

It's all about chasing that excellence and inovacy and everything has to be unique and everything, which, which I personally do. I'm attracted to, I like that. I like uniqueness and I liked it, but it creates challenges, as you say, where you kind of have to suffer a lot and take a lot of risks. Um, and for a potential reward that might never come, um, yeah.

Jakob

And I think that's the sad thing. And that's what I want to be a part of changing. Because at the end of the day, I want to do something different because I wasn't given it. Um, and the music industry is a high risk, high reward, yes, but it's also hierarchy and I think that's sad. I think hierarchy is there for a reason. But when you don't do anything proactive to reach down below your level out of not a egotistical this needs to benefit me. Now my senses are messing up. I think that needs to be a part of the music industry. And that's something that we're focusing on is like, who can we proactively give chances and reach out to in order to do something and pursue their dream. But yeah, I think, I think, um, I, I agreed to some degree.

Benjamin

But yeah, I think I agree to some degree, but I also disagree a little bit because one of the things that I have learned with doing music is that it builds, the industry is kind of created in such a way that it almost filters out the people who are not willing to really, really suffer for it.

Jakob

But I also disagree a little bit because one of the things that I have learned with doing music is that it builds... The industry is kind of created in such a way that it almost filters out the people who are not willing to really, really suffer for it. Because it requires so much... And as you say, you know, nobody's here to help you.

Benjamin

Because it requires so much extra. And as you say, nobody's here to help you. You have to do it on your own. You have to start out on your own. You have to hustle and you have to do it and you have to push it out and you have to work and stay up late and all that type of stuff. And then once things start coming in, then things becomes a little bit more easier to tangle. But I think for me, it's also a character development and it's a journey of character development.

Jakob

You have to do it on your own. You have to start on your own. You have to hustle and you have to do it and you have to push it out. You have to work, stay up late and all that type of stuff. And then once things start coming in, then things becomes a little bit more easier to tangle. But I think for me, it's also a character development and it's a journey of character development. You know, but if I understand, but maybe I misunderstood you. No, you're not misunderstanding me. But the comment I have to that is.

Benjamin

If I understand, but maybe I misunderstood you.

Jakob

Sometimes the most willing, risk-willing people who's able to take the most pain are also that because they're the stupidest, like the most stupid. And the people who, a lot of the people who are really clever is like, no, why would I put myself through five years of hell in order to achieve something that's going to be mediocre in the end? So my approach to this is yes, for my case, I needed to struggle to build character.

Benjamin

Yeah, OK. Yeah.

Benjamin

In order to achieve something that's going to be in New Yorker in the end. Yeah, yeah. So my approach to this is, yes, for my kid, it's...

Jakob

But in most cases, the clever people just won't do that risk because they have better opportunities than well as that's the part of being clever. Figure out like, is this worth it? No, then I won't do it. So if I can make a place that's gonna be more worth it, I believe the people who are the best fitting for the job maybe want to pursue it. Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, you have examples of people approaching that method, but doing it smart, you know?

Benjamin

In most cases, the clever people just won't do that risk because they have better opportunities than the others. That's the part of being clever. Figure out like, is this worth it? No. Then I'll do it. So if I can make a place that's gonna be more worth it, I believe the people who are the best fitting for the job maybe want to pursue it. Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, you have examples of people approaching that method but doing it smart, you know? Doing it smartly because they are smart people and they know exactly what you're saying. They understand that, listen, man, I'm not gonna spend five years slaving around some place and not getting anything for it or whatever. So I agree with you there. But there are also people, I think the people who understand how the music industry is and they understand the challenges of it and are smart. They understand that, listen, man, I have to do something a little bit different. I have to, I wanna go through the process.

Jakob

Doing it because they are smart people and they know and exactly what you're saying, you know, they understand that listen, man, I'm not gonna, you know, spend five years saving around some place and, you know, not getting anything for you or whatever. So I agree with you there. Yeah. But there are also people, I think the people who understand how the music industry is, and they understand the challenges of it and are smart, understand that listen, man, I have to do something a little bit different. I have to, I want to go through the process.

Benjamin

But I'm gonna make sure that my ass is covered in a sense, while doing it. And you have many examples of those people as well. And basically all that I'm saying is that in a very challenging, competitive and unfair environment, a lot of times you also get the personalities or the people that really are excellent because they're able to kind of...

Jakob

But I'm going to make sure that my ass is covered in a sense, you know, while doing it. And you have many examples of those people as well. And basically all that I'm saying is that in a very challenging, competitive and unfair environment, a lot of times you also get the personalities or the people that really are excellent because they're able to kind of

Benjamin

I would say confront those challenges and come out in a good sense. But again, I know it's a very kind of black and white thing to say. Because when you're acting, there's always a balance playing. Yeah, yeah. Everyone is excellent, nobody's excellent, yeah, in a sense. It's a summary, but also like if you're excellent, you're going to have so big faults as well. Like, I believe...

Jakob

I would say, confront those challenges and come out in a good sense. But again, I know it's a very kind of black and white thing to... But how many excellent people do you need? Because when you're excellent, there's always a balance in life. Yeah, yeah. So if you have a lot of excellent people... Everyone is excellent. To some degree, but also like if you're excellent, you're gonna have so big faults as well. Like, I believe... I'm pretty excellent what I do and I have huge things that I don't have covered. I don't need a lot of those people, please. Thank you. I would like to have great people who across the line are doing a good job. Like those section of people, give me one or two, but please not more. It's going to be too much work. Do you get what I mean? So, so the exception of people you're talking about, yes, it's good. Maybe I consider myself one of them in my line of work and you know,

Benjamin

Section of people give me one or two but please not more it's gonna be too much work. Do you get what I mean? Yeah I guess what you're meaning. Yes, it's good. Maybe I consider myself one of them.

Jakob

Considering what I'm doing at my age and where I've come. But I don't need another me right now. I need someone who can meet up to work, do a great job, deliver on time, smile about it, and do their homework, and deliver results. And I don't think they need to struggle for five years to get there. They can just...

Benjamin

I need someone who can meet up to work to create jobs.

Benjamin

Do their homework and deliver results. Yeah, yeah. And I don't think they need to struggle for five years to get there. They can just.

Jakob

Do a great education, work hard at school, have a positive attitude, and go get a good salary. Isn't that, that's where I wanna be. It's a great, very great vision. And I definitely think that it's absolutely achievable. And what's so stupid, right? We're talking about right now, but in other industries, people coming up from industries like, aren't they guys just talking about job? Like, so I believe.

Benjamin

Yeah, yeah. No, no. It's a, it's a, yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, and it's a great, it's a very great vision. And I definitely think that it's absolutely achievable.

Benjamin

Yeah.

Benjamin

Yeah, exactly. That's the thing. Yeah.

Jakob

And it sounds almost stupid, but it's not intuitive for the music industry. I believe if the music industry can be a bit closer to what it is to be in any other industry, we do so much better. So I understand where you come from. And that is the music industry narrative and the artists struggling narrative. I just believe it's, it's an exaggerated narrative that helps us accept our own very not optimal situation. Yeah. No, that might be true. It might be true.

Benjamin

Yeah. I understand where you're coming from. Yeah. And that is. That is.

Benjamin

Is a strong narrative. I just believe it's an exaggerated narrative that helps us accept our own very. Yeah, no, that might be true. It might be true. It might be true. Yeah, it might be true. Because, yeah, I mean, I mean, like from a personal experience, I when you're saying that, you know, like, you kind of have to chase people down and you kind of have to, you know, build something yourself, because not a lot of people are there to help you or the system is not necessarily there in place to kind of support you and so forth. I experienced that as well, and it creates a lot of frustrations. It really does. So I understand the frustration.

Jakob

It might be true. Yeah, it might be true. Because, yeah, I mean, like from a personal experience, when you're saying that, you know, you kind of have to chase people down and you kind of have to, you know, build something yourself because not a lot of people are there to help you or the system is not necessarily there in place to kind of support you and so forth. I experienced that as well and it creates a lot of frustrations. It really does. So I understand the frustration. But for me, what I've learned...

Benjamin

But for me, what I've learned a little bit over the years is that, um, because I, instead of sitting at home and saying, this is so frustrating, it's impossible. I said, okay, if I'm going to have to do it myself, then I'm going to have to do it myself, you know, and, and I kept doing that for some time and yeah, it was tiresome and I was frustrating at some time, but at a certain point it, it.

Jakob

Little bit over the years since that because I instead of sitting at home and saying this is so frustrating it's impossible I said okay if I'm gonna have to do it myself then I'm gonna have to do it myself you know and I kept doing that for some time and yeah it was tiresome and it was frustrating at some time but at a certain point it kind of made me into who I am today

Benjamin

Kind of made me into who I am today in terms of like skill sets and in terms of how to approach issues and challenges because I've been through them before and I've done it myself in a sense. So I'm not necessarily talking about like money or the benefits of jobs and so forth. I'm talking more about the character development of the person.

Jakob

How to approach issues and challenges, because I've been through them before and I've done it myself in a sense. So I'm not necessarily talking about like money or the benefits of jobs and so forth. I'm talking more about the character development of the person. And my argument is that can be built other places that is more secure. But it speaks to, you know, and I think it's a good sort of place to also round up.

Benjamin

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure.

Jakob

The episode is it just speaks to I have a personal agenda based on my personal experiences and my basic goal to some degree is providing opportunities for others that I weren't presented and it's not out of bitterness it's more out of the I believe that I have made it thus far against the odds and but I don't necessarily appreciate that I don't think that's a good solution I think that's been my solution and I'm happy for my journey

Benjamin

I have a personal agenda based on my personal experience. And my basic goal to some degree is providing opportunities for others that I weren't presented. And it's not about bitterness, it's more about I believe that I have made it thus far against the odds. But I don't necessarily appreciate that. I don't think that's a good solution. I think that's been my solution and I'm happy for my journey. Yeah, yeah. And at the end of the day, I want to build a good company for good people that I care about. Yeah, yeah. And if I care about someone, they don't need to go through the shit that I did. They go through their own shit in their own way. But at least the things that I need to struggle through for many, many years and get virtually no help from.

Jakob

But I don't believe it's a good solution. And at the end of the day, I want to build a good company for good people that I care about. And if I care about someone, they don't need to go through the shit that I did. They can go through their own shit in their own way. But at least the things that I need to struggle through for many, many years and get virtually no help from. Let me just provide them that starting point. And you know, I have kids now, right? You know.

Benjamin

Let me just provide them that story. Yeah, yeah. I have kids now, right? Yeah, yeah. I want to have them stand on my shoulders with my experiences and the things.

Jakob

I want to have them stand on my shoulders with my experiences and the things that I, you know, my parents gave me an upbringing and I want to learn from the things that I loved and learn from things that I didn't like. And then give them a hopefully better starting point. Yeah, it makes absolutely sense. So it's no different. Hey, thank you for being a champ and, you know, doing this rather narcissistic episode. But again, I think it's important that people...

Benjamin

gave me enough to learn from the things that I didn't like, and then give them a complete better site. Yeah, it makes absolutely sense. Yeah. Absolutely. Hey, but take a chance and, you know, do this rather narcissistic, Yeah. I think it's important that.

Jakob

If people are fans of the podcast over time, that they understand a bit more where I come from. And I think they'll definitely understand snippets by just listening to the podcast. But hopefully this gives those few, maybe two people that care about me a way to learn a bit more about me. Yeah. And I mean, it's been an interesting experience for me as well. To kind of pick your brain a little bit, challenge you a little bit and ask you questions. Because it's a...

Benjamin

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

Benjamin

Yeah, and I mean, it's been an interesting experience for me as well, to kind of pick your brain a little bit, challenge you a little bit and ask you questions. And because it's like we're working closer together. So, yeah, it's great. So thank you for the opportunity to sit here and fulfill the narcissistic episode. But yeah. All right, guys. Pleasure, pleasure. And yeah, watch the... Yeah, okay, fuck. Now we're done.

Jakob

we're working closely together. So yeah, it's great. So thank you for the opportunity to sit there and fulfill the narcissistic episode. Yes. But yeah, all right guys. Pleasure, pleasure. And yeah, watch the... Yeah, fuck. Now we're done. I'm gonna do a breath for you guys now.

Benjamin

I'm gonna do a rap for you guys now