Inside the Nigerian Music Industry and Its Global Influence

I am a strong believer that the creative industry in Nigeria is actually the next oil. I believe that the Nigerian music industry in the next decade should rank among the top 20 music industries in the world in terms of penetration and in terms of revenue. But Nigeria has to go from being a production market to being a revenue-generating market.

Going into this episode, I was hoping to be surprised. Talking with Dr. Chinito, we're talking about Nigeria, what has happened, what will happen in the future. And I am flabbergasted by what I didn't know about the potential of Nigeria and the African continent. I hope you love it. Hey guys, and welcome back to the Sound Connections podcast. Today I am a lucky host. I have Chinito with me in the studio. Welcome. Thank you.

This is an episode I've been looking forward to. I actually briefly explained to you that we've been doing this podcast for a while and we've been going very quickly. And I have realized over the time that most of the narrative I have with guests is from a Western context of what is the music industry. And today we're going to have a talk with you and you are one of the most significant people in Nigeria within this space. So I'm very happy to have you on. Happy. I'm happy to be here, Jacob.

And thanks for bringing me on the studio. And I look forward to this and I'm glad it's happening today. So I know who you are and I'm very excited to talk to you because you have had some pretty significant positions in your career. You've been the chief executive officer of the Copyright Society of Nigeria and you're also the founder of Purple Blue Academy of Music Business. But for the people who don't know who you are, could you briefly explain who you are and what you do?

Okay, thanks once again, Jacob, for having me in the studio for this important podcast. Quickly, my career has spanned over 23 years in the music business. I've gone in through the live music into management, that is collective management, where I spent the greater part of my career time in. I was in the collective management space, that's collecting society, where we represented owners of Autostrite and owners of sound recording.

I was in that space for 20 years and out of that 20 years, I was CEO for 10 years between when we started off the new system. So I was CEO for 10 years until 2020 that I left the collective management space as a full-time job. And I went into private practice, where I set up the Purple Blue Entertainment Solutions that really does issues, deal with issues in right management, copyright valuation, and also provide consultancy for CMOs both in Nigeria and across Africa.

I went on within that same period, I also went on to set up the Purple Blue Academy of Music Business that actually more like a training academy to train people who might be interested in our music business and also want to learn about the intricacies and the dynamics of the music business. And the good thing about the academy is that it's not just focused on creators and right owners, but also focused on those who run businesses that use music.

So businesses that are deployed music in everyday operations, the lawyers, the accountants that have interest in the music business. So the academy, it's more like a bridge, you know, to bridge the knowledge gap. And also within that same period from 2020 up to today, I'm involved in the streaming service called Jumamo. Jumamo is a Swedish-based streaming service that launched in Nigeria.

So I helped manage their African operation and at the same time too, myself and a partner, we set up a local DIY aggregator, a distribution service that actually enables local artists to distribute their music on the major streaming services. So briefly, that's what I do. And I continue to consult for a lot of organizations with respect to music, business-related issues.

I hope that helps my... Yeah, that's great, man. Thank you so much. And I'm very excited about this. Now, before we go into your career, which we talked about before we sort of started recording, is seeing, okay, what is the intersection between your career and how Nigeria has developed? But before we do that, could you help me set the scene of where is Nigeria right now on the world card of music?

What is happening? That's a very interesting question. There's no doubt, and everybody knows this, that the Nigerian music industry has actually witnessed what a lot of people would refer to as explosive growth over the past 10 years, what you would refer as the past decade. Number one, establishing itself as a dominant force within the continent of Africa and also on the global stage.

I think Nigeria has become, the Nigerian music industry has become really a powerhouse of such genres as Afro beats. You talk about Afro beats, you talk about Afro fusion, you talk about Afropo, gaining wide popularity across Africa and even across the world. And you will be familiar with top artists like Bonaboy, Whiskey, David Go.

And last year, the world actually witnessed, I will say what I will regard as one of the biggest, one of the biggest songs that came out of the continent of Africa and especially Nigeria. So I think the current landscape has been a landscape of churning out good music. There have been a lot of international collaboration, which has actually driven some of this development.

And you can't talk less of the digital services, the digital platform, social media, and the fact that Nigeria at this point is witnessing tremendous growth. Last year, if you look at the reports from the International Federation of Phonographic Industries, where the measurement in terms of growth has come from, you'll find that the biggest of the growth came from Africa.

The biggest of the biggest of the biggest growth came from Africa, which is about 24%, and a lot of that growth is contributed by Nigeria, South Africa, and the rest of the countries in the continent. So Nigeria, Africa is actually witnessing an explosive growth, and it's vocation by the digital platforms, the collaborations that our artists are having with the stars from other continents.

So what is going on now is that we're making good music that the world is listening and dancing to. So that's what I'll say that's happening in Nigeria right now. Yeah, I was actually listening to Burner Boy on the way to the interview just to sort of get me the right mood of what's happening in Nigeria. So it's amazing what's happening from there. But before we, understanding of where we are right now, I would love to understand where we will be in the future when it comes to Nigeria.

But let's leave that for the end of the podcast, because we need to understand what happened a decade ago. You said the last decade has happened in an explosive growth. What has happened in Nigeria in that decade that has made that possible? Okay, number one, I would say that if you were familiar with the country of Nigeria, even before the last decade, and respectfully speaking too, you will find out that our music landscape was actually dominated by music from other lands, you know, Europe, America, and all of that.

And it's not surprising because those continents have had strong influence on how music has traveled, you know, across the world, and Nigeria is no exception. But some things happened within that period that kind of began to change the narratives. And kudos must be given to one to the indomitable spirit of our creative young men and women who, despite the challenges in terms of infrastructural challenges and even economic challenges, The creative landscape has continued to evolve and continue to do what I will actually term as miracle, owing to the limited resources that is available to us.

But we've not been limited in terms of talent, we've not been limited in terms of creativity. I am a strong believer that the creative industry in Nigeria is actually the next oil. Why Nigeria pride itself since 1970 or late 60s to date as one of the major producers of crude oil and its associated product.

I can tell you that why crude oil may disappear maybe several years from now, the crude oil of the intellect and the creative ingenuity of young Nigerian creators would never dry up. And that is our comparative advantage. So, we have those talents in abundance. What we didn't have was, at that time, was the necessary infrastructure to allow such creativity and talent to blossom.

But it started with some of the government policies that were put in place in the early 2000s, where local content were actually given preeminence over every other content that calls from every other land, where the government deliberately, in trying to promote local content, made policies like, on radio, you have to play a certain number of content, a certain number of percentage of content that are local.

And that is, like, for example, on radio, the rule is that you have 80% local content and then 20% international or foreign content, as you may want to say. So, that is a key policy decision at that time. Number two was also democratization of radio. Before now, radio or television or the broadcast space has actually been dominated by whether it's the federal government or the state government.

So, the liberalization of the broadcast space that allowed local entrepreneurs and private people to invest in radio and invest in the broadcast space actually opened up that space. So, what you have now is that you have individual entrepreneurs investing in the broadcast space. So, you have more than one platform.

You have more than one platform. And now you have a policy that says you have to have content that is local 80%. So, the question now, where do you get the content? Where do you get the content? So, there is the space where you can put your creative content on, but there is no content. So, what the creators in Nigeria had to do was they had to duck back into themselves and began to create.

So, before now, we've always had a very, very active music industry right from the late 60s where you have, at that time, Philips, which was one of the majors at that time. Philips will go on to become Phonogram. Phonogram will go on to become Polygram. Phonogram will go on to become, I think they left at a time, but they were acquired, I think the catalog then was acquired by Premier, which is Premier Record today.

Then, we also used to have DECA, DECA West Africa, that later became Aphrodisia. Then, we also used to have EMI in Nigeria. EMI would later live in the early 90s or thereabout or late 80s, but their catalogs were acquired by Ivory Music. So, you will find out that between the 60s, 70s, 80s, Nigeria has always had a vibrant music industry. But something happened between the early 90s, 2000s and thereabout, because of the cassette technology that came in, the ease of reproduction, the ease of duplication, the cassette technology brought in a lot of growth, but also brought in the issue of piracy.

There was demand, but the market was not able to cater for the demand. So, piracy swapped in and the industry reacted very slowly at that time. The CD technology also came, pirates took advantage of that. And what we had was that the major investors in the music and recording industry, which were the majors at that time, they all left.

And because they left, the local entrepreneurs found that, okay, we can actually make, fill in those gaps, even though piracy was high. And that also gave rise to local labels like Kenneth's music, Westside music, all these were local music that came into the space. People like Chocolate City, Storm 360, they all came in to fill in the gaps when the international labels left.

So, that also was more like a training ground for them to begin to show what they could do. And like I said, the policy of more of local content also helped the growth. The policy of liberalizing the broadcast space also brought in space. So, those were the beginning of what we are beginning to experience today.

So, I'll say that all of that, now with technology advancing, and we now have the digital platforms where even the process of record making has been democratized. Even where artists could sit at the comfort of their homes, and they could actually distribute music that could be seen and heard across the world.

So, technology has come to also play its own major role. But something also added to this, that in late 2001, in late 2001, because Nigeria didn't have the fixed, not that we didn't have the fixed telephones, we used to have the fixed telephone, but it was very limited. It was very limited that you can count the homes that actually had the fixed telephone at that time.

So, here came in 2001, mobile telephony, and Nigeria, I would say, was one of the first countries in the world to embrace mobile telephony, where everyone could actually have a telephone gadget. What that means, the issue of having fixed telephony was no longer an issue because people can actually assess mobile phone. Now, the entrance of mobile telephony also democratized the music industry in terms of opening up the industry for new opportunities.

And that opportunity could be seen up until 2017, that up until that, ringtone, color back tone became a very big business in Nigeria, that for the first time, right holders could actually earn some level of revenue from the digital exploitation of their works. So, all of this had contributed to where Nigeria is today.

The ringtone came, and a lot of Nigerian creators made something very reasonable from that. And after that came, because people were now downloading technology they could download, and rather than going to buy CD, people can actually assess downloads and all of that. So, that also contributed. Then we are now in the streaming era, where you can distribute your music, and your music is heard and seen all over the world.

So, those are some of the developments, some of the trends that impacted positively on the Nigerian music space. And not to forget this also, the international collaboration that has happened in the last 10 years between Bonaboy and Whiskey, Davidu, those international, even of recent, Rema and Selena Gomez. Those actually helped in pushing the Nigerian Afrobeat beyond the boundaries of Nigeria, beyond the boundaries of Africa, that today, it has become a global phenomenon.

So, that has been what has been going on. Amazing. It's a really interesting journey that is so dependent on the access to technology. Yes. I have a question, because being an artist or a creative in any part of the world is a difficult career path when it comes to the financial aspect of it. How is that in Nigeria? Is it equally difficult or is it more difficult to be a creator?

Yeah, you see, if you take, for example, the Nigerian music space, a lot of the things that the Nigerian creators have been able to achieve has been, one, determination to succeed. You know, determination to succeed. And one thing I did not mention is that Nigeria, among other nations of the world, has the largest number of youth demographic.

I don't know that you know that, that the average age, the average, the median age in Nigeria is around eight. And the youth demographic is a significant driver when it comes to the kind of growth that we have experienced. The youths are, within this demographic, you have those that are tech savvy, they are highly connected, they have cultural, they've been culturally influenced one way or the other.

So, first of all, we have a very young youth demographic and that is one of the key drivers to whatever success that Nigeria is experiencing at this point in time. So, back to your question, in terms of how difficult or challenges that has confronted young creators in Nigeria. When we started off with the collective management space in 2001, that space, people could use your music on any platform and nobody's being paid for it.

But that's the ability to earn income for your labor and for your creativity. And some of us had to work day and night to actually put such a system in place. So, we did that for several years until 2010. After so many work has gone into this, we got, I think we got it right in 2010.

And that was when KUSON, the organization that I worked with, the Copyright Society of Nigeria, actually got approval from the Nigerian government to run a collective management organization. And we did a lot of work. We went to places that people did here to go to. We went to the broadcasters. We went to public performance center. We went to everyone that was using music in the public space in order to get them to begin to comply and respect the law.

So, that was a tough challenge and a system where there was no structure that could guarantee income for the right holders, for the creators, is already a problematic system. So, for us, what we need to do was to set up a system where the artist can have confidence in, where they can go to, and they know that their rights are protected.

And we were able to do that. And for the first time, for the first time, artists, creators, whether you're a writer, whether you're a performer, you know, began to earn income, began to earn income for their music. And that was something encouraging. So, yes, we had our own challenges in terms of having an actual monetization structure that will help monetize all of the works that have been commercialized.

Until Kusong came on board. That was like a pipe dream. But when we came on board, we started doing all of the negotiations with the broadcasters, with the telcos, with the hotels, with the transport companies. And we started suing people. We started suing. We started suing the defaulters and those that were recalcitrant. Things began to change for them. However, when it comes to assessing loans from the banks in order to finance a music project, that is still a problem up to today.

Yes, that's still a problem because banks are not set up to understand the music industry. Banks are set up purely for profit making and they don't understand the dynamics of the music business. See, what's in the first... ...are doing in our current position is to begin to educate the banks. And that's one of the reasons we set up the Purple Blue Academy of Music Business.

We can create and curate tailor-made models for financial organizations and financial institutions and help them begin to shift their focus where they begin to see copyrights, your recording, your song as copyright assets. Where they begin to see that with streaming numbers now, you can actually build projections to say, okay, if I give you a loan to set up a studio or I give you a loan to shoot a music video.

And I can show you my statement in the last three to five years what we've been able to do in terms of numbers, in terms of streaming numbers, in terms of sync licensing, in terms of shows. It gives you an idea that, okay, this is a bankable project. So what we are doing is try to change the mindset of those in the financial institution to begin to see the music business as business.

Yes, music is a cultural product, but it is also a tradable asset. I have a question that maybe is rather financial, and I'm probably going to go into order that I shouldn't be in, but I'm going to ask it anyways. Because while you were talking, there's a lot of things that really interest me. And while we're talking, I have this AI tool I use for searching, which is really, really easy. And I was just thinking, okay, what is the gross domestic product per capita in Nigeria right now?

And it's around $2,000 per year per capita. And that's around 30 times less than, for example, America. So my thought was, and I might be wrong, so correct me if I'm wrong. If you have a copyright system and a collection society or a remuneration structure that actually pays out to Nigerian creatives as they should be paid, And having, for example, an international song or international aspect or landing on playlists of consumers that are outside of their own region, that streaming income could actually be quite impactful, if that makes sense, because of sort of how the monetary systems are set up.

Am I going out on a tangent that doesn't make sense? I'm just trying to ask is whether or not that actually have a really big impact because the surrounding environment. No, no. You are not going. It's just that I was trying to hear clearly what you were saying. So please, if you don't mind, just repeat. Yes. I'll truly try to do it again. So while you were talking, I was looking at the GDP per capita, so gross domestic product per capita in Nigeria, compared to, for example, America, and it's around the 30th of it.

So my assumption was, okay, if we have a Nigerian song that has some sort of international perspective to it, that can be playlists that listen around the world, it can either be active or passive listening, that the monetization of those streams can actually be very impactful because the sort of Nigeria as a whole, that money is worth a lot, if that makes sense. So my question is whether or not whenever Nigerian creatives have an international impact, that is actually worth a good amount of money for those creatives.

Absolutely, Jacob. Because if, when I was speaking, I also talked about one of the trends that have happened in the last 10 years is international collaborations. And that has impacted on the earning capacity of our local artists who have been able to sign or feature in international collaboration or international projects. So that has really, really helped.

Then you also talked about the streaming services. Because our songs are no longer local. Our songs are on Spotify, our songs are on Apple, and all of that. What it does is that it's no longer constrained within a boundary. So you have people in the US, you have people in Europe paying to stream all of this. So that's income that has really, really gone a long way to hell.

And that's one major factor that has helped grow the industry. Why currently, I will say this, and some people might not like it, Nigeria is currently a production market because a lot of the music that are produced here are for export purposes. And the reason is not far-fetched from what you have mentioned, where the purchasing power of the average Nigerian compared to his or her European counterpart is still, it's very low, it's very low.

So a lot of our artists are producing music that are being sold on the streaming services. A majority of the people that are buying this are from outside the country. So that brings in USD for them. That brings in EUR for them, which enhances their crafts. So technology, international collaboration, the streaming platforms are actually helping to grow the local markets.

Now, what a lot of these people have also done is beyond having to sign up with the local CMOs, they have actually signed with international CMOs, you know, abroad, which are helping them to collect a lot of those international royalties for shows that happen outside the continent or outside the country. So all of these are playing part. So that is why any artist that is releasing a song today want to make sure that their songs are on the major streaming services or even on YouTube, because the borders have expanded, the borders have expanded.

Nigerians are earning more money outside the country than they are earning within the country. That's really, that's really interesting. Yes. So what I'm hearing is because of technology, it can actually be a very, very good thing to be a creative in Nigeria. And that's what you talked about, because when you talked about, you know, the creative side being sort of the new export instead of crude oil, I was actually confused for a minute.

Like, what do you mean by that? But what I'm basically hearing is because there's an outside economy that might have higher purchasing power compared to the local environment. That is actually, if you do well creatively, that is worth a lot. And to speak on it on almost like a social commentary, maybe that's actually what music should be priced at. Because the value of music on a society level is so significant and impactful that I applaud that music in that context is worth a lot of money.

Yes. No, I'll give you, I'll give you another example. As part of my role within the African music space, I also work closely with IFPI. Yes. And currently, I lead the national group, the IFPI national group in Nigeria called the Record Label Proprietors Initiative as the national coordinator. So, I do a lot of work for the Record Labels and I can tell you that the Record Labels are daily investing in new arts and in infrastructure that will enable effective commercialization and monetization of recordings.

Now, within the same last 10 years we've been talking about, if you follow the trend, I spoke to you in the 60s, 70s, 80s, that actually the Nigerian music space was vibrant. But something happened within that space. Piracy came in and they all left. But within the last 10 years, within the last 10 years, Universa is back to Nigeria. That is investment they are bringing in the economy of Nigeria.

And when I talk about the next, the creative enterprise or the creative economy being the next oil, I mean it with all sense of seriousness. Universa is bringing in investments, they are setting up infrastructure in Nigeria. That is foreign direct investment for Nigeria. Sony is already here. That is investment. They are also setting up structures. Not just Sony recording, the publishing arm is also here.

Warner, which is the third major, is also opening office here in Nigeria. So, these are testaments to the explosive nature of the Nigerian music scene. That it's telling us that this is a ground where you can sue. And what some of us are doing is to ensure that we have the right structure that will be an enabler for such investments to recoup at the long run.

So, they are coming in and one thing I didn't mention again is we have a lot of Nigerians in the diaspora. We have a lot of Nigeria in the diaspora. And that is playing a key role in bringing in foreign enablers to our local artists. If you go to the UK, you go to the US, you go to a lot of places in Europe.

They are Nigerians. They are large contingent of Nigerians that are influencing the cultural, local cultural landscape with the Nigerian culture and the Nigerian Afro-beats. So, because you have a large Nigerian contingent within these continents, as they leave the shores of Nigeria, they're exporting our culture. They go with our culture. They go with our food.

They go with our dresses. They go with our fabrics. They go with our music. So, you find that as they go in large numbers, they are the ones that have the per capita income to pay for this music in a way that you get the real value for the music. And that money, what happens? All of those money comes back home. And once it comes back home, it helps to reject the local music industry.

So, it's not one factor. It goes from the youthful demography. It goes from the diaspora community. It goes from God Best setting up its own policy in terms of promoting local content. It goes from international collaboration with international artists. All of this combined is impacting positively on what is known as Afro-beats today and the Nigerian music scene.

Wow. That is incredibly fascinating. I had no idea the impact that has. And I do see now how this is the new crude oil. Wow. I'm curious, does this apply for... I know Nigeria has a very strong cultural musical export now. But are there other African countries that maybe has as a characteristic music culture that is ready for export or exporting right now that could have a similar financial impact on those countries?

So, before Afro-beats, you know, before we all embrace Afro-beats, there have always been other African genres across. Even within us, we still have our iLife. We still have our Juju. We still have our Fuji. We still have our Bongo music. You know, we still have all those indigenous music. And what we call Afro-beats today is actually a fusion of all of these local genres, of these indigenous genres.

That's what is Afro-beats. And if you're familiar with the African music landscape, there's another genre that is doing very, very well as much as Afro-beats is doing well. And that's Amma Piano from South Africa. Yeah. Yes. That's Amma Piano from South Africa. And you will know, you will have known that when you look at the development of the music industry between South Africa and Nigeria, that is structural-wise.

South Africa seems to have fared better in terms of having better structure and a better well-managed environment than Nigeria. And we have the talent, but we're also trying to put our structures together because when you look at international report, like the IFPI report, in terms of revenue, when you look at in terms of revenue, there's no surprise that South Africa is top there.

You know, South Africa generates more than 70% of the revenue on the African revenue reports. And it's simply because of the kind of structure that they have been able to build over the years. And now this structure has made it possible for people to earn revenue from the exploitation of their work. So South Africa is a key market. You can, you can, in terms of revenue, they are number one in Africa today.

Another key market is Kenya. Kenya is a key music market in the continent. Tanzania is another key market. Ghana is another key market. Now, these are markets within the sub-Saharan Africa. Because Africa somehow has been divided into two. You have the sub-Saharan Africa. Then you have the MENA countries, which is countries within the North African zone and some part of the Middle East.

So that forms. But within the sub-Saharan Africa, South Africa in terms of income generation has been top for some years now. And this is due to the kind of structure they've been able to build over the years. And we're trying to do the same thing in Nigeria and even put better structures. But it's a lot of work and some of us are very committed at ensuring that such structures are put in place.

We already have the law. We already have the law in Nigeria. Now, I'm about to say today that within the African space, Nigeria actually have one of the newest copyright law that has been able to incorporate development within the digital and internet space. Whether it's the treaties on WCT, WPPT, whether it's the Benjin Treaty and all of that. We have all of that. Now, the thing is to be able to build structures, put the right infrastructures in place that will enhance the earning capacity of Afrobeat.

Not just outside of the country, but even within, so that those who are investing within the country can actually be giving some assurances that they can get their money back. So, yes, beyond Nigeria, there are also music centers across Africa, countries that are also doing very well in terms of putting out music there that people are buying internationally.

And I've just mentioned some of them. That's absolutely fascinating. One of the things that I thought about now is, one of the things that I have when I discuss music and I discuss the future of music is the perceived or practical value of music from a consumer standpoint. Because when you look at least from the area that I'm from, streaming service is not worth a lot and that's sort of how they consume music.

And that is sort of the value of music on an everyday person's life. But then, when you look at it from Nigeria's perspective, that value is probably closer to what is actually worth, if you compare it to other industries and other impacts. And I've been dabbling and really confused about that concept of value of music from a consumer's perspective. But it's so fascinating to see it from a Nigerian perspective where that is actually significant.

And one of the interesting things, just sort of as a comment, and we're sort of soon out of time and thinking for being very generous with our time, is I like math. And again, while you were talking and I'm listening completely, I have this AI tool on the side where I do some math once in a while because I think it's quite interesting. Because I was listening to a music business worldwide podcast here actually a couple of days ago where they're talking about Nigeria. And what they said is in, I think it's in 2023, the music industry revenue from Nigeria was around $44 million.

And I was thinking to myself, oh, that's interesting. You know, what does that mean in the context of the rest of the world? Because when you look at US, for example, it's around $17 billion. So that ratio is, you know, very far from each other. Quick math, that's, you know, around 350 times difference when it comes to the revenue size. But I was thinking because we just talked about gross domestic product per capita.

And I was doing the calculation on the side. So very interesting numbers, and this is very quick math, is that equivalent per capita, the US is only eight times bigger economy in music than the Nigeria is. Yes. Does that make sense? So the revenue difference is 350 times in difference. But the impact of the local environment, GDP per capita, is only eight times.

Absolutely. So you can see that. Yeah. So in other words, in other words, actually, the impact of the value of music as a leading part of the economy is not that far from each other, even though if you just take it on pure revenue, it's very far. Yes. That is fascinating numbers. Hey. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. No, no.

That's sort of how I think about it. And to sort of make a small close end to this episode, because we've touched base on a lot of things, and actually, I would love to have you back and maybe deep dive into some other stuff. It is just, Nigeria is a space that is developing. You have creators that actually, when they do well, are actually being compensated to a level of value that they probably should in other regions. Yes. And the impact of the local community of creativity is immense.

I'm going to ask you a couple of last questions. Where do you believe that Nigeria will be in the future of the music industry? How are they going to impact more, and how is it going to impact the local environment more? Okay. Where will Nigeria be in the music, global music space? I will say this. I think the future looks very bright for Nigerian music industry.

And I'll go back to what I said, because as long as we continue to maintain a young, youthful demography, which is tech savvy, you know, the future is bright. Number two, Nigerians, because they are tech savvy, a lot of individuals are beginning to dabble into what we now call music tech entrepreneurs, people that are creating solutions in order to enhance the music business.

Wow. So that is happening. I will give myself as an example. I am practically within all the spaces in the music industry. I run a streaming service. I run a distribution service. And what that says, what that says is the entrepreneurial spirit of the average Nigerian is to survive. Yeah. Yes. And it's, you don't need to look too far to know why.

The reason is not far fetched is because we are in an environment where, unfortunately, we do not have the kind of structures that you guys have overseas. So we need to think in and decide to survive and to make something meaningful out of our lives and out of our crafts. Having said that, for some of us, as long as we have the right structures in place, I believe that the Nigerian music industry, within the next, in the next decade, should rank among the top 20 music industries in the world in terms of penetration and in terms of revenue.

Hmm. Yes, that's where, that's where I see. I see. Because when you look at the top 10 music market today, I'm just looking at the IFPI report. If you look at that, there's no African countries that, in terms of revenue, that's within the top 10 music markets. Hmm. And you look at, in terms of revenue, the whole of Africa, based on sound recording, the whole of Africa, in terms of revenue in 2023, did about 92 million USD.

Yeah. So, and we all know that we have all the ingredients for astronomical growth. Yeah. What we are trying to fix, and that is where some of us come in, what we are trying to fix is the monetary mechanism that will ensure that we do not leave money on the table. Amazing. Yes. If we're able to fix the monetary mechanism locally, we don't have a problem with international realities coming in, because they will keep coming in.

But Nigeria has to go from being a production market to being a revenue-generating market. Hmm. So, that's where we are. So, that's the gap. So, we are here. We are producing one of the top sounds across the globe, and we are shipping it abroad through the streaming services, through collaborations. Some of us are working in, within, to ensure that radio stations begin to pay royalties.

Hmm. Begin to ensure that music is properly valued locally. Hmm. Yes. In the last one month, I've been speaking with some radio monitoring services on how to effectively monitor sound recordings over the radio airwaves. Hmm. We've been talking with some Norwegian companies on, hey, on front office applications, too, so that we are able to capture and register our works clearly.

So, as long as we are not able to fix those structures, we will struggle in the global revenue generation space locally. But some of us are determined to ensure that those areas are fixed. So, I'm very positive. The outlook is very positive. Technology will continue to evolve. And the mobile technology is also evolving alongside. And because Nigerians are among the first adapters of mobile technology, I see us doing a lot of things on our mobile phones.

And that will speak of where we go in the next, um, in the next, um, 10 years. And because a lot of Nigerians are tech savvy, there will be a lot of tech entrepreneurs. Hmm. So, there will be a new creation. The middle class will arise. Because it's like what has happened over the last 10 years is that you have the upper class and the lower class. The middle class has disappeared.

But the middle class is coming back. And when the middle class finally arrives, it means that the Nigerians has more purchasing power. People can now purchase more, you know, buy more music, pay for merchandise and all of that. And as long as government continues to give us an enabling environment, entrepreneurs will come into the music space. People will build stadiums. People will build arenas for live music and all of that.

And the societies, we're trying to strengthen them, will come up their responsibilities so that when you do shows, people are paid for the performances, the venues pay, everyone pays, and the investors are happy, the right holders are happy. So, I'm very positive that Nigeria do have a positive outlook musically, not just in terms of creativity and talent, but also in terms of revenue generation.

And currently, I was in the capital two weeks ago and we are engaging government at the very top level to making sure that the environment is right for creators to harness all of this for their own betterment. And at the end of the day, government is better off because you have more people to tax. When people earn money from their crafts, there is more in the pool for you to collect in terms of taxes.

People will be willing to pay if the earning power increases. And that's what we're trying to do. I am so deeply fascinated about this conversation and this is what I hope for. I always hope to have a revelation and I have definitely had. I'm going to be very clear that this is not the last time I'm going to ask you to come on the podcast. I do hope you appreciate it being on it because there's so much to unfold here. I'm enjoying myself, Jacob. I'm enjoying. There's so much to unfold.

We've been going on for the hour and I think this is a perfect time to sort of end the conversation as of right now because we have touched upon things that I need to think about and I hope the listeners will also contemplate this. Like my last comment is, if I took on my investment hat or co-founder enable hat or sort of sweat equity hat, this seems like a market you would invest in. It's a market that is exploding. It is a market that music has a much higher value per capita than other places.

And I did not know this and I do feel lucky. Let me, let me, let me shock you quickly. Yeah. I know we have no time, but let me shock you quickly. You know what we are doing at Jumamo? Someone will ask, what are you doing with Jumamo streaming service? There is Spotify, there is, there is Boomplay locally and all of that. But what we've discovered that there is still a gap. There are a lot of creators that are scattered within villages and hinterlands and communities that are not in Lagos. That are not in the commercial cities.

What Jumamo is doing is to give those guys platform. All we are saying is that you can create your music in your village and we will make your music available to a larger audience. We will make it available to the world. So you do not need to leave your village to be heard and to become a superstar. That's what we are doing at Jumamo. That's amazing. Well, we've talked about it before, but let's definitely get Jumamo on the podcast as well and we can deep dive into those conversations again. Yes, yes.

Thank you so much for being in the podcast. Thank you for putting your time into this and we'll talk very soon. Thank you. Thank you, Jacob. And my regards to your team and thanks for having me here. I look forward to another session of this very interesting topic. Thank you very much. Thank you.