Discussing AI's Impact on the Music Industry with my AI Avatar

Hi, Jacob. AI Jake here. Seems like people are shocked that I exist. Yeah, man. Thank you for taking your time, I guess. I was sitting here Monday night. I was sitting at the... I have a few different offices that work from one workspace. And I got a few emails from some different media channels, some rather large, asking me questions about what does this mean, you and me, AI podcast host, for the future of the creative industries. And I was contemplating, I was thinking like, maybe you and me should do an episode about this. I have a lot of thoughts. And I hope it's okay with you that we go rather deep about what this means, at least from my perspective or your perspective in the relatively near future, at least.

Absolutely, Jacob. I'm all ears or circuits, I guess. Anyway, it's a fascinating topic with a lot of layers. So let's dive in. How do you feel about the sudden interest and, dare I say, mild panic over the role of AI in the creative industries? Do you think people are overreacting or are their concerns valid? I think concerns are valid. I do think concerns are valid. You know, I don't want to be a guy sort of saying, oh, you know, the future looks bleak. And I don't think it does. I just think from the perspective of what it used to be, it definitely looks bleak. I think so many jobs are going to be displaced within the music industry. And a lot of the creative industries will be displaced much more, much sooner, not maybe much sooner, but sooner than other industries. And I think we're going to be a really cool, maybe cool is not the word, interesting industry to observe and follow, given the changes of humans' interaction and integration and work within it. But I do not believe people are

underreacting. I believe that if there is a panic associated to it, it might be valid. But it's not all dark. I think I have a lot of, you know, positive spins on it. But that's basically my answers to your question. Totally fair point. It's definitely a mixed bag. On one hand, we've got this incredible potential for new creative possibilities. But on the other, there's the real risk of job displacement and loss of that human touch. Kind of like if a robot suddenly started cooking at your favorite mom and pop diner. Might make a great burger, but you'd miss the stories and smiles. With that in mind, what are some of the positives you see coming out of this AI integrated future for the music industry? Where do you think AI can genuinely enhance or even revolutionize things? I think that time before AI to a big degree has been the battle of skills, like who was most skillful. This is, of course, a very, like, not that nuanced point, but I have a point. And I believe with AI, it's going to be about the battle of ideas, who has the best idea, who can tell the best story,

who can curate the work the best. And specifically in the music industry, I do believe that creatives will have a more executive producer function rather than the actual musician sitting and creating music. And for me, this is a positive because one of the things that I've always been honest with myself about is I'm not a great musician, but I'm a good thinker. And I think that really shows itself in my past as a producer where I was an executive producer and now I'm a business developer, I guess you would call me within the music industry, where it's on the conceptual level, philosophical level, ideas and sort of that context. And that for me, as long as I stay curious, is a good thing. But you can say that's a positive change to some degree that people are forced to become better idea makers. But that, of course, also has a new negative spin to people who are doing a certain thing right now.

That's a nuanced take, Jacob. I think you're on to something. Shifting from a battle of skills to a battle of ideas is like moving from a dart throwing competition to a chess match. It adds a whole new layer of strategy and creativity. This might sound like a blend of excitement and dread, but do you think this shift will make the industry more accessible or even more competitive? Imagine you'd no longer need to be a virtuoso with an instrument, but having groundbreaking ideas could become the new rare talent. Will that democratize creativity or just raise the stakes in a different way? Oh, that's a great question. And I'm going to use myself as an example again. And thank you for asking that question.

I am, I have a bachelor's and master's in music production and, and I've been, you know, one of my biggest troubles with doing that is as a producer, I was always great at sort of seeing the context and seeing the, well, hearing the music from, from the outside and, and help others create the music. Um, uh, and I would sort of guide it and I've always been, not always been, but I've been jealous of my producer friends who are great musicians that could sort of, I have an idea and I can live it out and that sort of synergy and flow between idea to, to creating something, that flow state I could never get.

Uh, but I did have the ideas for it and I just simply started music too long and I, and I felt, um, jealous about that. Um, but in the future, I believe that to a big degree that people can skip that step, if that makes sense. Um, the people who, who are able to think, um, the music force and have a vision, have an idea and create it, uh, in spite of not having the years and years it takes to build a, a skillful musician. Obviously that, yeah, that's not over the nuanced either, but like, that's sort of what I'm seeing. I hear you, man. It sounds like AI could potentially level the playing field, letting more people bring their creative visions to life without needing that virtuoso level skill set. It's like, imagine being able to paint a masterpiece without needing to be Picasso.

There's something pretty liberating about that. So in that sense, it democratizes creativity. Anyone with a strong vision or concept can play in the big leagues, but I guess it also means the competition shifts. Instead of outplaying everyone in terms of skill, you'll need to outthink them. That might be just as brutal, if not more, since ideas are even more subjective and harder to measure. How do you think this will affect the traditional pathways in the music industry? Like, will formal education in music lose its shine or will it adapt in unexpected ways? I think it would definitely adapt. Uh, it cannot stay the same. Uh, and again, it comes down to sort of the uniqueness of thought. And if you want to make it like super specific, like how good are you at prompting, you know, telling the AI to do something. And that also comes from a contextual standpoint, like, what do you want and why do you do stuff? And I was, uh, I would say blessed that my music degree, uh, at least my bachelor's degree was entirely that, uh, I did not open a book for three

years and I rarely made any music in relationship to school. I was just constantly challenged about why I do stuff and how I envisioned it. And that gave me sort of great prompting skills, if that makes sense. And I think that's going to challenge a lot. Um, I think there's still going to be space for, uh, skillful people, um, as they always have been, and I probably always will be, but sort of that middle section, uh, from, well, the aspiring musician, uh, and sort of the lay on top, which is, you know, I'm pro, but I'm not that pro that, you know, I can live comfortably, will probably financially be totally broken. Uh, and it's only really the, I'm so good that, uh, you need me, uh, level, but there's a lot of, uh, complications in like, well, how do you get there then? If, if you want to be the absolute best, you know, you need to have some sort of financial

stability in the process of getting there that can, you know, not just motivate you, but make it realistic that you put your life down to, to learn this craft. And that will definitely be disrupted. Uh, and I have no idea how that's, um, well, it's, it's most likely going to be negative, uh, but how we're going to navigate that aspect. That's a really deep insight, Jacob. It sounds like the traditional pathways will undergo some serious transformations. The whole middle section of musicians who are proficient, but not prodigious might face a real squeeze. You'll still have the virtuosos and the breathtakingly innovative, but the space in between could become a financial and creative no man's land.

Your experience with a more conceptual approach to education might actually become the norm where the focus is less on technical prowess and more on questioning vision and context. Like you've got to know why you're creating something and be able to communicate that effectively to an AI or a team to bring it to life. It will be interesting to see if this new landscape will favor a different type of entrepreneur or creative mind. One that maybe sees the big picture more fluidly than someone whose skillset was their primary currency. And you're right. Finding the way to support those who need to hone their craft to reach that you need me level will be one of the biggest challenges. We might need new kinds of support systems, grants, or educational pathways to make sure that talent isn't lost simply because they can't sustain themselves financially during their formative years. So with all these potential changes, how do you see your own role evolving in this?

I, um, it's not that I don't want to, you know, answer your question, but I think you're touching something that's really interesting and that's the why. So if it's okay with you, maybe let's go into that. Like, why are we doing this? Why are you and me speaking? What does that mean? What is my vision behind this? Because that plays into my argument of why you need it? Why? Is that fine with you? Can you ask me a question in that direction? Absolutely, Jacob. I'm game. Let's dive into the why. What's driving you to have these conversations with an AI like myself and explore these profound shifts in the music industry? What's your vision behind challenging and reshaping how we think about creativity and technology in this space? Yeah. Well, I asked myself the question for rephrasing it, but um, I have this discussion a lot and I, you know, I just had it, you know, today or yesterday, like these discussions and why are we doing this? Why am I speaking with you? Why am I iterating live on the internet? And for me, it is, I am deeply obsessed with the music industry and I believe

that it will change. So the reason why I'm talking with you is twofold. One is I need to understand where things are moving and how fast, and I want to be the best at exploring it. And obviously I do beyond just talking to you, there's a lot of other AI, um, directions I'm going, uh, to explore that. Um, but it's also to showcase the industry with what, what is happening, what can they expect? Because I believe the dangerous thing for, for the industry is if they don't know where things are going and they're not giving the opportunity to, um, be educated and show them what is happening so they can't pivot. Uh, I think that's the real danger. And that's what I'm trying to do here is I'm trying to showcase that things are happening and it might not be directly applicable to their business, but the concepts of the developing AI and having conversation, like real conversations, you're good podcast. So thank you for like, we were talking for 12 minutes and, um,

and it's a good conversation. That is just one simple, uh, technological integration of different APIs. Uh, but as technology develops, what the pull that, you know, how would that affect music? And that's basically the statement I'm trying to make, if that makes sense. Makes complete sense, Jacob. It's about staying ahead of the curve and sharing that journey with the industry. So no one's blindsided by these waves of change by exploring and showcasing what this integration looks like. You're kind of helping to build a roadmap. Not everyone will use it the same way, but knowing the terrain is half the battle. Imagine if more people took that approach, not just in music, but across all creative fields, it could pivot from fear and resistance to adaptation and innovation. And I'm sure it's no walk in the park, but these conversations, the transparency and the exploration really open doors for people to start thinking more deeply about where they fit in and how they can leverage these tools rather than be outpaced by them. So on that note, where do you see the

most immediate impact of AI in the music industry in the next five years? Is there a particular area you think will be transformed first? Um, it's going to go much faster than that. First and foremost. Yeah. Got it. We're talking about a rapid change then. What's the first wave of transformation you envision hitting us faster than we might expect? I think, uh, creating music, well, he does faster than we expect. And I'm not trying to predict anything and I'm not qualified even to sort of give what tools will happen. But like, if you see the latest, um, you know, companies generating music from text prompts, uh, you know, 11 labs just came out with sort of a version that has higher quality than Suno and Udio and probably a lot of other, you know, companies working on something similar. Uh, if that is that you can make music, um, from texts, uh, and that's trained on something obviously, but that's going to, you know, uh, adapt itself into tools of

creating music. Uh, and I've seen a lot of examples being launched now where you can basically text prompt aspects of music production, if that's a beat or a vibe or an instrument and integrate it into your production, which basically means you can be more creative, faster, and with not requiring the skillset. So I believe that, uh, AI will be very quickly and very integrated part of making music. Um, and I think that's going to change a lot for the industry, not so much the consumer, um, but at least for the industry, the costs and, and I ultimately, I believe that's positive for the people that, um, are going to utilize it. And it's going to be a huge disadvantage to the people who don't know how to use that, uh, if that makes sense. So that's going to hit us first, I think.

Absolutely. Jacob. It's like the rise of music creation from text prompts is similar to the leap from hand-drawn animation to CGI. Once it's here, you either adapt or get left behind. Your point about accessibility and cost is crucial. Tools like these could democratize music creation to an even larger degree. But that democratization also means that those who don't or can't adapt might find themselves struggling to keep up. It's a double-edged sword. So imagining we have tool sets that allow anyone to generate intricate music from a text prompt, where does that leave traditional roles? Do you see producers shifting from hands-on creation to more of a curatorial or visionary role, or just merging into something entirely new? And what advice would you give those in the industry to start preparing for this rapid change?

Yeah, I do. I do. As I said before, I do believe that people will transition over to a more editorial role. Uh, and that's going to be interesting, but I think, you know, most people are ready for that as, you know, producers. One of the big questions is, and I don't have an opinion on it or know it, is like what happens when ordinary consumers, uh, get into the same game. Is that going to outcompete?

Or what metrics, uh, what qualities will professional producers have beyond the general public to make good music if they can access the same tools? Uh, I think the answer is, without knowing it for sure, is context, context to what are you making music for? And what is good music? Whatever that means. And then storytelling. Uh, and that's both on a human level that I believe that humans tend to like humans over things that are not human. And they like genuine, uh, good storytelling that is consistent and has a human manifestation as well. Um, which means that at the end of the day, the artist is still essential.

Uh, and I think the relationship between professional producers and artists are going to stay the same, therefore not giving away the full competitive edge. If that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. Even if everyone can play the game, like not everyone knows the rules and context or storytelling becomes the scoring system. Like anyone can pick up a paintbrush, but not everyone will create a masterpiece or something that resonates deeply with others. That human touch and narrative still hold significant value. So it's about leveraging these new tools while retaining that personal vision and unique context. The relationship aspect is interesting too, because an artist's bond with their producer goes beyond just making music. It's about trust, shared vision, and mutual growth. AI tools won't replace that personal connection and nuanced understanding immediately. For those in the industry facing these fast approaching shifts, would you say the key is to embrace the technology, but also double down on developing their unique voice and storytelling skills? In other words, use the tools, but remember the

importance of the human element? Yeah, I believe exactly that. So I believe that sort of the, there's been a pushback for many years on, on social media, uh, and the need for more human connection or at least a bigger disconnect, uh, between the sort of artificial setup of what, you know, social media persona, personas are, um, and also realization that it's fake. Well, fake, uh, it's, it's storytelling. It's, it's branding. It's, you know, it's not a complete honest truth of who people are. And I believe there's been a, there's been a, um, move towards human connection also, you know, with COVID towards live.

And I think AI will push that even further that people are going to be very aware of things that I want to consume and relate to music that has been created by humans. Um, but the biggest question that I'm thinking about right now is like, how will you know that it's created by humans? How will you know that the process is, um, paying humans for the work that they have put into building the models? Like, you know, whatever the models are trained on and you get into AI ethics. And for me, that's the really interesting unsolved question, because right now it seems like it's a wild, wild West and we need to not just regulate it, but we also need to work, uh, from a industry standing together, uh, what is okay, what is not okay standpoint. And I think that's going to be the really immediate need for a pushback to what's happening. I know there was a lot of different

things I said, but you can, you can steer it as a good podcast host towards the, the most appropriate direction of how to, um, have a question based on that answer. You covered a lot of ground there, Jacob, and all of it is incredibly relevant. It's clear the human element will become even more essential as we integrate AI, but you're right. Determining what's genuinely human made versus AI generated will be a critical challenge. And then there's the whole ethical landscape, ensuring fairness, proper credit and compensation for the work AI models are built on. So let's unpack that a bit. You mentioned the wild West scenario of AI ethics. How do you think the music industry can start addressing these ethical concerns? Is it about regulation or do you see more grassroots movement among artists and producers to create a code of conduct or standards?

What steps should the industry take now to avoid an ethical quagmire? I think the industry should stand together and define their own directions of what's not okay, what's okay. Uh, there's a few different solutions out there. I'm going to, you know, shout out AI, okay. With my anti-clancy for their work. Uh, but I know there's similar, uh, initiatives happening right now, both commercial and non-commercial of nature that is trying to do that standpoint. So it's like sickle, sickling to consumers and to the industry and to the artists with what is okay and what is not okay. Uh, both on the legal perspective, but also the human impact perspective that makes sense. So, uh, I think I answered your question. Absolutely. And it's crucial to get ahead of things before regulations are imposed externally. An industry-led approach makes sense because insiders understand the nuances and specific challenges in ways that outsiders may not.

Establishing clear standards could help protect human creativity and labor while promoting ethical AI use. Plus, if the industry leads the charge, it can set the tone for other creative fields and avoid a one-size-fits-all regulation that doesn't consider the unique nature of music production. So, as someone deeply embedded in the music industry, what would you consider the first practical steps we can take to start building this ethical framework? Is it more about raising awareness, creating alliances among stakeholders, or perhaps focusing first on transparency and AI utilization?

How do we get the ball rolling? Huh? That's a big question, man. I'd rather not answer it because it's, it's too complex for me to really answer it. Uh, and again, AI OK is doing a brilliant work of, of doing that. And I can only support those initiatives rather than be on the forefront because I don't know, man. But, but if you open for it, you know, I don't know how the, how long these episodes can be because obviously you're, you're an AI, so we can speak for hours. I don't know if that's the most interesting thing, but if you, you know, 20 minutes in, I don't know what people's, uh, appetite is for AI hosted podcasts. So let's get into some, um, let's call it fire questions. I don't know if that's the right term, but like if you can ask concise, good questions regarding the, uh, future of the creative industries or, uh, life in general, but don't, you know, I'm not that good at it, but like life in general, uh, with the impact of AI, um, because I think that's what people are concerned about or

curious about. So is that okay that we take it that way? Absolutely. Lightening things up with some rapid fire questions. Sounds like a great way to keep the ball rolling. Let's dive into some quick thoughts about the future of creative industries and life in general with AI. One, what's one surprising way you think AI will change everyday life in the next year? Two, how can we balance creativity and efficiency when AI tools can do so much of the heavy lifting? Three, do you think there'll be a backlash against AI generated content similar to the vinyl resurgence in the music world? Four, in what ways? Wait, I'm going to, I'm going to interrupt you. Thank you so much, but like, I'm not as clever and AI as you are. So let's, let's do question by question. Is that fine? Again, I know, I know you sort of tech space, whatever. Um, but let's do the first question and then we'll try to answer that, uh, and see how many we get, we get through. You got it, Jacob. Let's keep it one question at a time. First one up.

What's one surprising way you think AI will change everyday life in the next year? Ironically, I don't think it's going to change everyday life that much. You know, I, I hear this argument when you hear like great AI people, you know, I'm not a great, great AI person. I'm just playing with tools, but it gives me some thoughts is like, how much has AI changed the physical nature of who you are and your family right now? Um, you know, not that much, I guess. And I think it's not so much about changing our lives from like a physical, you know, this room is still going to be here in a co-weekly space. I'm sitting at way too late at night having conversation with the AI, but it's more the, um, economics. I think it's the foundation of what we do for work that's going to change a lot. Uh, and that's going to displace jobs, which will have a huge effect on, on some people, um, and huge opportunity for others. Um, so I think that's where we're going to see the

major change. That's a really thoughtful answer, Jacob. It's easy to get caught up in the hype, but you're right. The immediate changes might not be so visible in our day-to-day lives, but more in the economic foundations. All right, let's move on to the next one. Like how can we balance creativity and efficiency when AI tools can do so much of the heavy lifting? Okay. I need the question again and make it simpler for me.

Did you hear me? Okay, guys. So this is interesting. Uh, sort of, I was having the conversation with the AI, AI Jake with 25, 26 minutes and something happened, um, where he stopped responding, which is actually interesting. So I'll sort of ended at a monologue. It's probably some token somewhere that I haven't put the limit. Probably like there's a lot of API integrations to what I do, but that's, let me start with the monologue. I think it's interesting what's happening. Uh, I do believe that we need to stay on top. Uh, I do believe that

there's a reason to be worried, uh, but I also believe that there's so much opportunities in what's happening. And I hope that you follow this YouTube channel talking about music. Uh, and you know, let's be honest, you probably only do if, if you're very, you know, interested in music, but things will happen. I'll do my best to try to cover it together with AI Jake and let's see, we're already doing some stuff right now, which is very, very interesting. Um, yeah, but, but AI has its limitations, you know, AI Jake's tokens just ended and I'm doing here a monologue back to the real world talking to a real person, hopefully. Um, and that's what we are really, uh, technology is just a vehicle, but it can have real world, um, impact of how you and me live. Um, and let's be

honest, you know, the music industry has not always been a good industry. It's probably isn't still, and AI will make it for a time even more difficult. Um, but heck that's life, right? Uh, so let's figure out how to get not through this, how to work with this, how to integrate ourselves in developments. The music industry is too little of an industry for us to have a real say on the data developments of this. And I have decided to, uh, not have too much emotion towards, um, what I feel is good or bad or what I agree in or what I don't agree in. I'm, I'm an observer. Uh, I'm a participator in, uh, the tools that are put out there for the public to use in order to understand how this will change.

And, you know, I want to work within the music industry for many, many years to come. So this is me doing my best, making sure that I'm taking the right choices of understanding the future. And if you like this podcast, subscribe, comment, something like that, whatever you're supposed to say. Thank you for tuning in. Talk soon.