Nurturing Talent and Community

Jakob Wredstrøm

Motivating employees and building community in a startup in music is difficult. It's difficult making enough money. It's difficult actually creating sustainability. But we're in the process of doing that, the process of making money, but mostly in the process of motivating people around us. Superb, my friend! Alright guys! You speak French? Yes, yes! Welcome, how are you? Assalamu alaikum, Ibrahim Abarak. For all my Muslim sisters and brothers out there. Yeah. What? Welcome to the sixth episode of Sound Connections. Welcome back to co-founders. Thank you. Great to be back. It's very great to have you guys back. We're gonna talk about something interesting today. We're gonna talk about community. Yes. And building talent. And I think we're just gonna go right into it because we are a company now that after summer is gonna be around 20 people. And we're trying to be honest with this podcast. We do have money, but nothing compared to like straight up salary 20 people. So there's a lot of things going into. On internally motivation in order to have so many people build towards the same vision. And I just want to figure out what that is. Like, why do we have so many people joining us? Okay, let's go straight. Why do you think that so many people- What do we do right? Well, I mean, if it's the one big one, it's the community, you know? It's building a place and a community and a team where people like to spend their time. You know, it's not necessarily monetary gain. Yeah, well gain or incentivized, you know, or driven. But it's more than the fact that there is a potential way of making money in this company at one point, but it's also the fact that people enjoy being here and pulling together and, you know, creating something. Because we do have a mixture of personalities, like, you know, as founders, that probably has motivated a bit of the growth, I guess. Yeah. Let's just talk briefly about who we are on like a human connection level. Yeah. I can start with myself. Yeah. Like I'm a very like goal set person, and then, you know, I like to work hard. Yeah. And I like people.

Jakob Wredstrøm

But not in like room party set like settings. I like to have individual talks and be inspired by individual people, but I'm not like an extrovert partying type and you know, that's hanging with all my friends all day. You guys are- I wouldn't say so, no. I would not say so, no. I wouldn't say so. It's the way you start the sentence, I like people. I like people, but. But you guys are a bit more like how I described it, right? Yeah, I would say so. I think we've been hyper social. Hypersocial, if that's a term, then I'd say that's what we are. Yeah, well, socializing a lot. We are going and very... Just going back to junior high school days. We did hang out a lot with the people at our own school, but that wasn't enough. We had to get to know the people from the other schools. We had to know everyone. I think that's our personal trait, always pushing, always getting to know. New people and we've been doing it together. Most of the time. Yeah, 21 years. God damn life. You're older than 20 though. We've known each other for 20 years. Yeah. Well, yes, we are maybe a certain type of we are also, you know, our own persons, our own people. You know, we both come from, you know, the bigger families with a lot of siblings. I think that's something about it. But it's also, you know, which is like people and community. Yeah. I think that's been the really good balance here because when we three founders have built Capella so far and what we're building in the future is we have some people who are very passionate about building, building like the builder. And I think that's going to be me. Like I love building and you know, just straight unfocused on that. And you guys love to have people around you that follows the journey in a different way. Maybe like you build and then we care. I think we are. No, I mean, I guess we're all building. I'd say I'm a builder as well, just different aspects of the, so I'm a builder. Yeah, it's kind of a loose conversation, just trying to pinpoint because what I'm trying to say is the dynamic between us three has been a quite good match of real-life community. Because I have been the person who have like very proactively built a vision.

Jakob Wredstrøm

Like where we wanna go and what we wanna do. And you guys have inspired or had this as a friendly place where people can develop and build their own dreams within by being those people you are. Yeah, and also maybe in a way, we're kind of your translators. You are very straight to the point, very on. And we have gotten to know you very well the last two and a half years, but. Not necessarily everyone understands how your crazy brain works. So it's, I think in a lot of cases, and I think we see this again and again, that it's not- I think we function as like a bridge, again, to dynamic. I think we're good at some things you're not good at, and then other way around, vice versa, you've been amazing in building, but sometimes communication-wise, that's what we've been doing, that we're a social beings, that's the important thing. And that's sort of where I want to continue this podcast because We wanna give some tools to the listeners how maybe they can be inspired to build. And like we talked with Sundar in the previous episode, the team aspect is just so important. People can't be blindsided by their own mistakes and faults and what they're missing, but actually try to find people around them that supplement in order to build stuff as entrepreneurs. And that's sort of like where we're going. But I think it's very also interesting to understand what are... our motivations of being this company, because building community is one thing, but we can't find our goals and dreams within that community, of course it won't work. So what are your, briefly, what are your personal motivations with being here? It's changed a lot, but now it's just, you know, creating some legacy, you know, creating something that hasn't been seen in this city before, something completely new and we've already done it. I think, uh, in the beginning it was money and fame and everything that changed, changed quite rapidly, I'd say the last two and a half years. So now it's just actually doing something. I'll be here a lot longer than, than we will, you know, just legacy. So that's my number one motivation. It's just.

Jakob Wredstrøm

That I will be remembered for doing something and creating something in the city and cultivating artists, creators. Yeah, I mean I couldn't agree more but I do, I do, I think my primary motivation is having all these people around me while also building this community and this company. I'm also pursuing the dream of being an artist, you know? Writing songs and playing songs in front of big crowds. And I don't think I would be able to pursue that dream if I didn't have this team around me. I mean, not everyone is involved in my own project, but everyone's still a part of the journey. So yeah. And for me, I have this weird thing that, it's not even weird, but I'm in it for the journey. But I'm in it to build big and build the best. It's like an internal drive I've always had. Like I wanna be the best, I wanna build the biggest and that in itself, not so much the goal, but just in the process of trying to build the biggest and the best is what motivates me. All right, that's what gives me the satisfaction of the day. Makes sense. Yeah. Sounds like you. Yeah. I feel like you. And I also think that's to, you know, as you said, you know, having people around you and you said what I- I wanna be remembered. Is also the local aspect of it, like having actual transformational effect in the local community. But for me, I just wanna build the best and the biggest. Does that make sense? I think that's sort of Capella. Like our three motivational aspects and directions have what is the effect of put all that together as Capella. Absolutely. What happened then is we grew to be more people. Started with us three people, grew to like five or six people in a bit more than a year, we've grown from six people to over 20 people. So what has happened is we've enabled a community around us. And what I experienced is when we first had established like a healthy community between us three and what people came into, they also contributed to that community. And it has built itself stronger by just first having a very healthy core.

Jakob Wredstrøm

And then have people that are of the same mindset join into it and then build with it. Because I would say that, you know, our culture and our community, like the friendship and the extra motivation and just this being a job is so strong. Oh yeah. I think that's the only reason we're still here. Yeah. Definitely. What's our plan to preserve and work on that moving forward? You know, at one point it grows it grows, it grew so much bigger than, or faster than, than we could have expected. And I guess we kind of saw that when, when there were so many more people at the office every day, we saw that, okay, there are maybe some, some people that don't match with personalities and, and things. And, and I mean, not, not in a really bad way, but you know, 20 people, there's going to be some differences, you know? So, so what we're doing lately is, you know, having more gatherings and, and meetings where people can speak up about, you know, their thoughts and feelings and how do they go about their day? Do they have any struggles or something? And that's also helped to achieve some more openness to the team so that people are allowed to, you know, talk about anything. Yeah. And I think what's also really interesting in that is a step before that, is we've had, we've established three mantras that we actually evaluate the people that we work with. And it's three mantras that we've adapted over time. And I think they're actually all based on podcasts that I've heard and got inspired by, by Guy Coller, Irwin, Raffalo, and McManus. But we've sort of adapted it. And the first one we adapted is, is give more than you take. I'm just gonna let that hang there. Yeah. That is our main thing of evaluating people that we work with. How would you unfold that concept? To even create something, start creating, you have to give more than you take. Otherwise it won't be sustainable, right? That's like something, and I remember that mantra like early on, I think it was like, yeah, whatever. You know, we said it, but the more we actually did things and created, it was like giving and giving and giving, not taking, less and less it actually started seeing the creation of something.

Jakob Wredstrøm

I took it into consideration. I also think that, you know, the city and the people in the city can see that's what we're trying to do. And they see that there is, okay, here's some people that, you know, are actually doing something out of their own will to kind of contribute to, you know, an industry or a city or a community. Creating something. Doing something, an effort actually. Then we got a new mantra over time, because the give more than you take was like a really helpful way to make sure that the base personalities people we work with were aligned with who we were. Yeah. Because we are generous beings. Yes. But then we also experienced that sometimes, they might process that, but they're like maybe. Individualists and I think there's going to be a lot of room for that maybe in a big conversation, but it's more fragile and developing. In the beginning. That wasn't really a thing. So we developed the second mantra, which is a team before talent. Yeah. And I think that's really also what we're really spending a lot of time on is how do we develop people when they are in the team because talent might be less than, you might find other individuals out there that has huge talent. Definitely. But it's not a team player. No. And so they can't contribute with what we're building because we- It will not work. Yeah. It will not work out in the end. So what we're also doing there is we're trying to develop, you know, founders within us to be equipped to be that time they may be lacking from the first place when they got into the community. Yeah. We're gonna talk a bit about that. And then the last mantra we have equipped ourselves with is more a mantra about fairness. That is win-win or no deal. Yeah. I think that's such an important one. So why is that important? Try and explain to me. Well, you know, it kind of explains itself in a way, but win-win or no deal. So it's, we usually talk about this one, we're making deals, you know, if it's new collaborations or, you know, signing a contract somewhere or whatever, there needs to be a plus on both sides.

Jakob Wredstrøm

If this thing is gonna be long lasting and people are gonna trust us and if we're gonna trust people, there needs to be, it needs to go both ways. Yeah, and it spills over in deals, as you said, but it also spills over in the people that we work with when it comes to compensation for their work or if they wanna join as founders, how many shares do we allocate to their part of the project? So I think those three things is what we have applied now. Maybe they'll come more in the future or maybe we'll just stick to those three. But give more than you take, team before talent, and win-win or no deal, I think is our, what's that called in English? Sorry? Guidelines. Guidelines, guidelines for how to continue building. Yeah. Is that true? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. But let's be a bit practical. Yeah. Because what does that actually mean? What can people take from that? So let's say we're starting a new company, we'll call it the music company. A hypothetical scenario, but taking from practical applications we do. We having two people that we want to lead that company underneath our synergy, Kappel Entertainment. What do we do? First, we try to train those people, with practical skills in order to be able to do that job. We don't train them for months and months, but all the information that you need, that we know, we'll try to pass over. Then we'll agree on an ownership. Of that new project. Like if it starts under us, we want some ownership. Sometimes we want a lot, sometimes we want less. But we come to a situation where we say, win, win or no deal. Like do we feel like they are fairly compensated with what they put on the table? And that we as a company are fairly compensated with what we bring to the table, which is multiple things that could be skills, people, community, office, experience, time, investment. Cash, so many things. So that's sort of when we start a company, we need to have that, is it fair ownership that people are getting? And just to take a few steps back, before we find those founders, we use team before talent, give more than you take as an indicator of whether or not they could fit in general. In the synergy and in the community. How do we find those people? 20 people, how do you find them? Well, the funny thing is,

Jakob Wredstrøm

It used to be that we went out and found people only. But now I think we've gotten to the point where people actually find us. And I think that's a really, I mean, to me that's a really cool thing because that means that, you know, people are talking about the company, people see it as a potentially cool place to be and people take an interest and they contact us and we have them over for a coffee and that happens more and more. So I think that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah, that's sort of how it happens. And I'm just going to go back. So we have this company, we equip them with the skills enough to know enough to actually start something. We have a fair ownership model where everyone seems seen. Then there's also the aspect of purpose, right? When you talk about the music industry in general, and this is a podcast for music entrepreneurship, opportunities of getting into the industry is quite limited. Become a music industry professional and how do you become an artist for that sake? And I think what we're providing for a lot of our people is they have maybe studied music business, but they've studied music or they've studied things that's similar to that, but want to get into music industry. We become some sort of a way of coming into the industry. Bridging the gap. And I think that's also a very important part of the puzzle because when we have found the right people, equip them with the skills, the ownership and giving them a purpose, it's also what is the compensation? Because people need to live. And we try to outbalance all those upsides with ownership and purpose and say, okay, how much is that worth? And then let's try to see if we can finance the rest that maybe you won't live accordingly to if you had a normal job, but let's try to make sure that you can actually live. Not much more than that, but actually live and then having all these other things. Yeah. And I think that combination in general, in our experience, tends to be enough for people to deep dive into this. Yeah. But there needs to be some sort of, I feel like there has to be an underlying dream or passion for what they're going to do. Yeah. You know, because, or just has to. Yeah. Let's take this example of Sunder.

Jakob Wredstrøm

That we had, you know, the podcast before, sent us to see over Mintix, which is one of our companies. So what he was passionate about was technology. He was passionate about blockchain, NFTs, crypto. And what we did, again, going back to it, is we gave him the skills to understand the music industry and the practical implications of that technology in the music industry. We provided him ownership over a new project. We... we gave him a purpose that he wanted to build something with something he was interested in. Yeah. Like he loved that technology. He wanted to work within the technology. We gave him a purpose to create something practical out of his interest. And then we- And help him find a team. Yeah. Placed him in a community where he could thrive as a person. And then the compensation didn't come for a long time. Like he actually worked, you know, for free. Well, he had shares, but like didn't get any money from working until maybe like eight months in. But again, that was a scenario where those op sides were so big that the financial compensation came in second priority. And I don't feel like that's like a good thing per se. I definitely think we wanna be a situation where we in the future can. I think there's a balance of course, competitive salaries, but it's just purpose being one of them, given purpose. But of course, at some point you need to be competitive. Salaries is a thing, but there's a balance. Because I think the point is that you can always go find a job where you can get money. Yes. Like, you know, not everyone can get a job, but like most people can get a job and get money. Yep. Very few people have an opportunity to have purpose. And a lot of people, you know, most of the majority of people can be replaced. I think Capella also is a place, you know, with Sondre, for example, he's not replaceable. You know, there's, you know, that's a big difference. You go to a major label. Work as an A&R, you can be replaced. I think with Capella, you're actually building something. So that is the purpose and then you're feeling that you are a vital piece of. And I think that plays into the purpose aspect. One thing is like what you wanna achieve, but who are you in that piece of the puzzle? Yes. Maybe that's the thing about the community is like all those aspects combined. And I think that's important to think about when you as a music entrepreneur want to build teams around you, is those examples we gave.

Jakob Wredstrøm

Because we haven't just done it once. Like now we have eight companies on our umbrella or starting three and by this podcast is launched before we have launched those three companies. And I'm not saying necessarily that is a good idea. Like the time will tell. But what I can conclude, what I can conclude is that people want to be here. And I think because of the things we just said, that is some of the main reasons of why people want to be here. Yeah. Very true. Like hands down. Hands down. So what do we do practically in order to also equip them? Because I think that's one of the biggest issues because we can't just build a company on purpose. No. We need to have skills. So, yeah. I'd say leadership again, like with leadership. We've been doing this for two and a half years and you know, from going from scratch. I see myself as a good person with leadership skills, but I think in Capella, it wasn't until Like now, recently, I think that I really understood I'm doing stuff that is impacting people around me and the leadership, I've been doing, how do I put this way? When we started with Capella Records, we're basically replicating the other companies, basing in odd Capella Records. I've been through all the struggles, I've been through the ups and downs, and I think I've learned to be a leader just because of that. And then the leadership skills, which I can kind of I don't know what I'm doing, I'm doing something at every point in time. I think that's a way for me to empower the people around me. Not just purpose, but actually have some structure around being direct and actually learning the... So expectations and responsibility. Yes, like the balance between friendship and that's fine and community and purpose is good, but actually having goals and being direct and being structured to achieve whatever you want to achieve. And what we have, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So you're saying responsibility has also made you a leader in a way and placing that upon yourself and placing upon the people who we work with. But what we have also done lately is we have had workshops. We've had a guy called George Kamara, who is a previous CEO of Nike Africa, like big, like a structure guy. And just help us like rethink everything about, structure, teams, goals, strategy. And because,

Jakob Wredstrøm

What people have in common in the music industry, almost always, is that they are inherently creative and inherently non-structured. Yep. I think that's a common denominator. Yes, definitely. I think we are all, like, all three here are that. Yep. Oh, yes. By nature. Absolutely. We have, I have had a lot of years learning how to become structured and you guys have had a bit less, but just that development itself have been quite crazy. So we try to equip people by having these workshops, by having these mentors, but we still have a long way to go. I think one of the things we have done exactly right lately the last six months is we have hired people that are not founders, but we have hired people for a job. Like I'll call it non-founders, or like people who have a certain set of skills that we have hired to fulfill a certain position. Professionalizing. Professionalizing with like, where we pay them one-to-one. Their salary, that it's like you're here as an employee to do a job. And the great thing about that, it also gives us the aspect like, this is serious. Exactly. And we can't expect that people just are here just because of the community, but they're here also to just fulfill the job. Of course, we hope that there's more to it for them. But I think it's all steps in professionalizing and building a community, because I think that also plays into the community aspect because it brings expectation, responsibility, as you said, that now we have people who are spending real money, hiring these people, so we expect you to uphold the momentum of the company so we can keep on paying these people. Yeah, no, absolutely. There is a level of expectations to the people that we. bring on board and there needs to be a level of independence as well. They need to be self-driven and we can't force feed them everything they're supposed to do. That's not just how it works. And I think that's a perfect example to transition into the artists. Because it's basically the same way that we treat the founders in our company. We try to treat the artists with very high expectation of their own momentum.

Jakob Wredstrøm

And drive. Absolutely. Because the reality is like almost every single artist we have signed, if it's on a booking company or a label, it is new artists that we have more or less developed from scraps with a few exceptions. Which means that we don't need to only learn them how to make music, we need to learn them how to be professionals. Everything. Every aspect of being. Yes. Yeah. Learning them how to navigate through this, you know, very strange industry, you know, and ever changing. Slowly, but ever changing. Yeah. And I think the positive aspect for the entrepreneurs listening to this podcast is, if you have worked with Otsys, developing Otsys as a manager, as an A&R, or something like a producer, I think you are grasping some of the main things about developing a team on a professional level. I'd say so. I'd say so. It's the same things because- It's structuring that creative nature into something that can have one direction and have momentum and make something fruitful. Yep. So I believe I, as an A&R, where I've developed songwriters, producers, and artists over the years, that has equipped me with the skills of developing founders. Yeah. It intertwines. Yeah, so we've built this community. Yes. And we have found, we think we found a way to build people and build companies. So, moving forward, we want to go somewhere. What's your version of where we're going? Oh, that's such a big question. There's a lot of things that we want to happen within the next five years. Let me know. But I mean, for one, it's, you know, having all the companies, you know, self-sustainable so that there's actual revenue so that we can, you know. In every company? Yeah, in every single company. So that we can further invest, hire more people, expand on all fronts. That is a very like, yeah, businessy goal that we have, I guess. Yeah, because if we wanna be really direct, we want to be the best and the largest independent Nordic music company. Yeah.

Jakob Wredstrøm

That we want to be structured as a global music company would be structured with investment arm, with technology, with artists, with distribution, with industries that are closely tied to music. We wanna have a presence there. And maybe it will never happen, but I'll bluntly say on the podcast, that is our goal. And I think one of the things in a vision about Capella is that we want to be a fair company. We want to give opportunities. We wanna make it accessible for talents to get into the industry, both on a founder's level and on an access level. And what we hope to is taking these concepts that we've developed the last two and a half years and we'll probably improve them, but take them and build on them. The three mantras, which is our, it's our base. Give more than you take, team before talent, win-win or no deal. And of course that's just soft things, but without those soft things, being totally aligned with what we do, we don't have some guidelines of how to do it. And I think it's really about guidelines. Like, if we're enough people with enough skills, with enough passion, with enough resources, we'll probably build something. But if we don't have the guidelines, we're not building in the right direction. Yeah. Well said. Yeah. And I think the music industry on a global level is going towards fairness. It has to. It has to. It cannot stay the same. I know. So I believe there's a place in the market for a company like ours that is based on fairness. I totally agree. Sounds super hippie. No, but it's true. Just to the business level, I think that makes sense. Looking into the future, that makes sense. I think just looking at the industry today and how people are talking about the industry today, it's just very unfair. It's not. Barely divided, you know, the resources and the money and, and you know, it's, it's some people on top and some people on the bottom and something needs to change. So I think there's room for it. Yeah. Cool. It's been such a pleasure talking about this and I'm looking so much forward to building this company with you guys. Like, you know, over the next many years, I think we'll probably see each other in a few episodes. We'll just figure out what to talk about. We'll be back. But I'll tell you this much that I had, I would never have found this as enjoyable.

Jakob Wredstrøm

Without you guys or with us complimenting each other. We're so different, but we definitely on the same journey. Appreciate you, Jake. Yeah, appreciate you. Thank you so much. Yeah. All right.