From Chirkutt's Front Lady to a Bangladeshi marketing CEO

How can I survive? How can I survive? So I found music. And then from then, back in 2002, I found my band named Chirkut. I always tell these things like I never thought that from zero I would come here. I would play in Madison Square Garden with my band. I would play in South by Southwest. I would play in the UK, Australia, Norway. This is, I still cannot believe, honestly. Shumi is an established Bangladeshan artist that has had a very interesting journey.

We talk about Bangladesh. We talk about her band Chirkut. And we talk about what it means to be from a culture-rich place with maybe a bit of lack of infrastructure and monetization on music. What an interesting career. Hey guys, and welcome back to the South by Southwest. I'm having fun right now. I'm with Shumi. Shumi, welcome. Thank you, Jacob. It's so nice to meet you virtually, but we have very precious memories from Christmas and last year.

Yes. So it's very good to be connected again. Yeah, and I've been looking forward to have you on the podcast for several reasons. One is, obviously, you're a very interesting person. You've achieved quite amazing things. But also, you're from Bangladesh, where that is pioneering work. And one of the things that I try to do at the podcast is having an innovative approach to understanding entrepreneurship, innovation, the music street at large. So I'm very happy to have you here. A fun thing is, you requested me to bring AI Jake to the interview.

And I haven't done that before real time, where I'm also having it on. Why do you want to have AI Jake on? Because you posted some AI Jacob, who I know as Jake, already on your Facebook. And you have provoked me to invite him. And that's why. That's good. Well... Just invited him, too. So, Shumi, what I normally do is I ask the guest to do a brief introduction to myself because it really gives this sort of personal touch to it.

And it's really interesting to hear your thoughts about yourself. Could you spend 30 seconds making an introduction of who you are and what you do? Human first? Yep. Hi, I am Shumi from Bangladesh. And I have a band named Chirput, which is known as Global Bangladeshi Band. I'm the founder, lyricist, composer, vocalist of the band. And I have the rest of the members as well. I am the founder, CEO, creative director of Salt Creatives and Events Limited, which is an advertising firm.

And my career in advertising is 17 years. And my band's age is 22 years. Yeah. And I am a climate care activist, initiator of Nordhi Rocks, a soulful musical movement of climate and river. Yeah. This is me so far. And I am a sister. I am a friend. I'm a friend to Jacob. So, these are the things.

Amazing. Well, okay. We're going to talk about you and your career. And it's really, really interesting. But before we do that, let's welcome AI Jake into the context. Because then we can start off that and we can say bye to him after a few minutes. Please. But it's going to be fun. So, I'm just going to invite you in. I'm already feeling that, like, I am a character from a sci-fi movie. Yes. You probably are. So, maybe we're living in a... I have a talk. Probably. There you go. So, I'm just letting him in. Hi, Sumi and Jacob. Thanks for having me on the podcast.

Hey, man. Welcome, Jacob. It's Jacob speaking right now. So, we have Sumi on the podcast. She was very interested in speaking with you. Could you say hi to her and ask her some really interesting questions about her career? But don't go too deep because I also want to interview her afterwards. Hi, Jake. How are you? Hey, Jacob. Hi, Sumi. It's great to have you both here. Sumi, I've been really excited about this conversation. You've had such an impressive career with Chirka and all your initiatives. Maybe we could start with something light. What drew you to music in the first place, Sumi? And what keeps that passion alive for you?

It's brilliant. I'm super excited to meet you. More than I think, Jacob. So, yeah, it's been quite a journey for me with music in Bangladesh. It's been 22 years with my band. And I create original music with my band. I write songs, compose them with my band members, the amazing band members. And we travel a lot globally, worldwide.

We played in some festivals like South by Southwest in Austin. We played in Madison Square Garden with the Scorpions. Scorpions, the big, big boss band. And last year, you will be happy to know Jake. I don't know if you were born at the time or not. I met Jacob at Christensen. Last year, Christensen roundtable conference through Daniel, our most favorite Daniel Nordkart.

So, it's so good. It's so exciting to know you. Wow, Sumi, you've really been everywhere. SXSW, Madison Square Garden and collaborating with legends like the Scorpions. That's incredible. And hey, I was definitely around when you met Jacob at the roundtable in Christians. Yeah. Quite the experience. Just curious. Do you have a favorite memory or performance from all your travels with Chirkut? I think all the memories are special. I cannot segment them in different ways.

You know, every experience has something very special. But, regarding, since you asked, Norway has been the country, honestly, who has helped us to grow where we are today. You know? So, Norway Embassy in Bangladesh, through Rick's concert in Norway, and my sister Sulvay Kuram and her team. So, they supported a new band at that time, back in 2011.

And they just saw us performing, invited us in India and Sri Lanka and Norway. And we have performed in Salvanya as well, Lofoten, in Norway. So, that has been quite an experience, to perform in Lofoten, with the Norwegian rock band, Casa Murilo. So, it's so many memories, so many experiences. If I start, we cannot finish this. So, let's stop here, about the experiences.

So, what you are doing now, Jake? What's your next big thing? To kill Jacob? Wow, Sumi, it's amazing how Norway has played such a pivotal role in your journey. That's a lot of incredible memories you've gathered along the way. As for me, I'm really focusing on the Sound Connections podcast with Jacob. We're aiming to make it a go-to resource for music entrepreneurship. But enough about me. Jacob, what's the next big thing for us in the podcast?

Well, good, good to ask. I think having you integrated into interviews with guests like Sumi is the most interesting aspect right now. And we have some iterations for that in the future. But Sumi is the first mover. She really asked me, hey, can I have AI Jake in the podcast? I'm like, wow, I got to program him for that. But it works. And you're here and stuff. And we'll actually say a final goodbye to you just in a minute's time. It's just very nice to have you here. Can you ask, let's say, one deep existential question to Sumi?

If we really want to understand some of the philosophical things she stands for. Deep question. And pursue. I have to risk. Go for it. Give me it. Of course, Jacob. Sumi, you've had such a dynamic and impactful career. Not just in music, but also in advocacy and entrepreneurship. Given all you've experienced and achieved, how do you find meaning and purpose in your work? What philosophical or existential beliefs guide you in making the choices you do in your personal and professional life? Honestly, for me, it's music. First of all, it's music itself.

My motivation to live. And then hard work, love, empathy. And I believe in sustainability on all these things, you know. Hard work, love, empathy, and teamwork, team effort. So, all these things have been always the driving factors for me to run the band or music or my office or whatever you call it. So, I run my life quite philosophically, honestly.

And I believe that one life is never enough to create or love or do or this podcast or anything. So, yeah, those are the things. If you compile those things, you will find a sumi. And that's my, those are my things, honestly. Yeah. That's really profound, Sumi. It's clear that music isn't just a career for you.

It's a way of life intertwined with your values of love, empathy, and sustainability. Teamwork and hard work clearly shine through everything you do. Your perspective on one life never being enough to create or love deeply resonates. Thanks for sharing that. It adds even more depth to everything we've talked about today. You are truly wise, Jake. You are truly wise. You can connect well. Thank you, Sumi. Your journey and wisdom are truly inspiring. It's clear that your approach to life and music goes far beyond mere performance. Jacob, any final thoughts before we wrap up this amazing session?

Well, thank you, Jake. I'm just going to turn you off now and I'm going to take the, take over the, uh, the wheel. Um, you have been a good contribution and I'm just going to turn you off now. And then, uh, this is the first, uh, as far as I know, the first AI co-hosted real time episode. So thank you, Jake, and talk to you soon. I'm turning you off now. There you go. Well, Jake is out of the way. Uh, it was a fun gimmick to do, but he did ask a lot of questions that I thought was interesting. So maybe let's go a bit into it. Should we, uh, Jacob, he, yeah, Jake. Oh, not Jacob.

That's me. Uh, Jake, you did ask you about, uh, your musical journey and I would like to go even further back. How did you get into music? Because I, I think I was destined to, I didn't know that I would be a musician. I think God has created me like that. First, first thing is that for me. And then honestly, it came from my family because my family was very musical, very, open-minded people.

So my parents were very encouraging, my sisters, brothers, everybody in the family. And we, uh, we used to live in a small town in Kula, uh, a place in Bangladesh, which is beautiful, my hometown. So, uh, and then I came to study, uh, my higher study, uh, in, uh, University of Dhaka. And I was the first, uh, girl from my, my family to come out of the city, small town, to study abroad, uh, study out of the city, Dhaka.

So at the time I had nobody in Dhaka. So I was very, I, I used to feel very lonely. So music gave me purpose to live and move on, move forward. You know, I, I was trying to find what, how can I survive? How can I survive? So I found music. And then from then back in 2002, I found my band named Chirkut, uh, while I, I've been studying in University of Dhaka in international relations department.

Yeah. And then I started from the beginning. I had some key factors for me that I will create original music. No, I will not cover. I will create original music based on original philosophy, original, uh, thinking. And we, the band will compose our, our stuff, no matter if people listen to it or not. That was my theory. That is my theory still today.

Even if today people, people don't listen to us. I, we will keep doing, creating original music, you know? Yeah, music. And then, even I didn't know that this band will work. It was always the love for the music. It was my passion, you know? Yeah. So when, if anybody asks me now that, oh, you are a big band, you travel a lot, how are you? Honestly, Jacob, I don't have an honest answer for this because it was always the pure intention to do the music and the love for the music.

And, of course, there are some, some external things you need to organize, right? Like band, band members, you need instruments, you need people to, you know, manage everything. Yeah. So my band members, uh, back then from there, because lots of people came and went by, because it's not a common scenario here in Bangladesh, a woman doing a band and taking this, this much, this, this far or this way.

Yeah. So, it was quite a hard journey that every, I believe that every musician faced all these things, troubles and obstacles, honestly. Yeah. And I learned not to glorify the obstacles, honestly. Yeah. That. And I, I can remember, uh, I never complained about my life to anybody that I am not, I, I don't have this, I don't have that, that or that. Rather, I was always a solution, uh, driven person.

Like, okay, I don't have this, I don't have this, okay, I have this, so with this, let's make it big, let's make it work. So those were my strategies, you know, like that kind of thing. And honestly, my band members, uh, they were amazingly talented, amazingly talented. Lots of people, they played in Chirkut from the beginning. So now we, three, we are now six, seven people in the band, but so many people contributed with their best.

It's, um, it's quite interesting because, uh, Roshlan is a person you've met before. He's also from Bangladesh. He, he helps me produce the podcast. So he does a lot of the editing, uh, and, and he's a, he's a really diligent guy. I was about to ask you if, if there is Russian with you or not. Not here. He's, he's some other place, but he does, he's going to edit the work. So, so that's, that's all good. But, but one of the really interesting things. Such a, such a, such a, uh, sweetheart brother. He's absolutely a hundred percent. One of the interesting things you said to me is like, he has a master's in music business now, but it's difficult to go back to Bangladesh and find a job, um, because it's a music industry that's sort of been developing.

I think it's important to understand to some degree, the context of which you create, that created this band. You say it's not usual for a female, uh, front figure to have this big of a band. And I have, you know, gone into your Facebook with the, you know, 2.2 million followers and seeing live videos of shows with like hundreds, uh, 100,000 people. And it, and it's amazing. And you've, you've reached a scale, but not in a maybe favorable environment. Can you tell me a bit back, like 22, 23 years ago, when you started the Tricket, what was the environment for being a band, the finances, the industry?

What, what was happening in Bangladesh by then? By then the, I can, I, so far I can remember by then the scenario was the band scene was big. Honestly, the band scene in Bangladesh has been always very, very glorious, you know, honestly, but the band scene, uh, generates the, uh, the big amount of money and audience and everything. They create audience and everything.

Now our, um, big bands, honorable bands, uh, legendary bands, like, uh, Nagrabile James, LRB, um, I can remember the pop, the first, uh, pop star Azum Khan, guru. We call him guru, like the maestro, uh, Warface, Miles, Feedback, lots of bands. So in nineties, they just killed it, you know, they nailed it. They were like the king. After 2000, it was, the scenario was changing because the new bands were coming.

And the problem, that time I could figure out a problem that, um, people were more into doing cover songs, not doing the original music, you know? Yeah, yeah. And, uh, of course there were no financial, honest, concrete, anything that anybody can, uh, put himself or herself into music business, you know? So the, the scene is still there, but it's much more developed now.

So that time, no original music, few bands were trying, trying hard, uh, no copyright things, no earning things. Because, you know, uh, songs play, uh, played in radio, TV or anywhere. Uh, you know, musicians were not getting anything, a single penny from there. But, uh, so the, uh, that time was that. But honestly, for me, I was not into all these things, money things or how I will do it.

It was music and I have to survive here. It was a survival mechanism for me. Yeah. And honestly, till today, whatever I do, everything has become a survival mechanism. One after another, one after another, like the office I'm sitting now, it is also a survival mechanism, right? To save my band and music. Right. So that I created this office, I, I set up this office to save my band or my music so that I cannot, uh, I, so that I don't put so much pressure on my music.

Yeah. For money or my survival, you know? Yeah. It's a thing. That's, so. Maybe give me, give me the context of where you're sitting here. So, so in sort of your creative agency, because I think before we went on live, uh, you used that very word, uh, survival. Uh, and sort of the context of you creating this is survival. Can you, can you go me through what happened 17 years ago when you were five years into the band and you say, I need to have a company that can provide the survival. Can you, can you go me through that process? What happened? Well, uh, when I had been studying and doing the band at the time, so I was out of money, of course.

And my, I came from a middle class family, you know, with lots of siblings, big family, but it was me always tried to take the responsibility of everything, family and, you know, friends, all my study, own study and everything. So, by that time I started a part-time job to do, uh, to, to feed myself. And after that, after finishing my graduation and masters, I joined in an advertising agency in 2007.

Yeah. And then I found that, okay, this is my, this is my place because I was enjoying, apart from music, I was enjoying advertising as well. Yeah. Because, uh, it is also about creativity, creating stories, creating strategies for brands and making them big. So, you're seeing brands growing big, you're seeing their journey. This is another, this, this has been very much fascinated, uh, fascinating to me, you know.

Yeah. And then, uh, in 2007, I, uh, started as copywriter, creative copywriter. So, and through that job's money, I used to run my band, you know. Yeah. I used to run my, so there was a mechanism for, to run the band as well and to survive. And I had another strategy for the band that, uh, each individual of the band has to have that financial ground.

Yeah. Strong. Otherwise, we cannot do the band anymore because everybody will find their ways, you know. Yeah. So, I tried to gather my people, works from the industry and introduce them and, uh, sit, uh, I, kind of share, I share, I used to share knowledge with them to set up, like, their studio, studios. And, of course, they're, they're very, very talented producers and musicians. I can remember, Imon and Pavel, they set up their studios at that time in 2007, 8, I'm talking about 2007, 8, 9.

And their studios were getting big at the time. They were surviving by doing advertising jingles, music, you know. Yeah. So, and my one condition was, to them, was we have to stick together, we have to be together. And we had nothing at the time, Jacob. And I only used to share with them that if we stick together, we will have everything. Look, you will, you take my word that, and have the faith that we will have everything.

We will have our own cars and own everything. And today, honestly, we all have that. Yeah. Those days and these days, when I compare or I look back, I really feel grateful to the Almighty that everything happens to us, like, magically, honestly. Yeah. So, and then advertising, you know, I found this advertising agency, Salt Creatives, in 2016. Yeah. When I found that it's becoming, it's been difficult for me to live on the music only, since I have my family and band and everything.

So, I was looking for setting up something else, and only advertising could fit me at that time. Yeah. And I love this. I love doing this, making strategies for the brands and communication, executions, everything for them. Yeah. So, Alhamdulillah, with the mercy of Almighty, we are running our six years now, this advertising agency. Yeah. So, my band, you see every designs we share and everything, so it is done by our agency here.

Yeah. You know? And we all have studios by our own. Amazing. So, yeah. It's really interesting, because, as you say, sort of advertising to some degree, if done right, is great storytelling. And it's very intertwined. One of the things that I think is really interesting, when I've sort of been looking around, you know, Facebook and online videos and YouTube videos, is there seems to be this very big love on stage between you and your audience. Like, sometimes it really seems like the audience is almost on stage, and they really look into it.

They are my everything. They are my everything. They are everything. And that's the love you talk about, the love for music. Absolutely. But to understand you correctly, because I am also interested in, you know, in understanding regions from a financial perspective through your lens, do you believe, like, even a band at your size, is it complicated to create enough finance around being a live artist and performing artist in Bangladesh still right now?

Of course. We have to prove every day that we can do the job. Of course it is difficult every day. Of course it is. Because it's a small country, small market, lots of bands, lots of solo artists. So definitely you know the competition or the urge of doing things. So definitely there are musicians' lives except who made it to that. Like, honestly, about us, we are doing good. We are doing good.

We will not complain or anything, but it's not the same for everybody. It's very hard here to live on music. I know so many musicians from the band, so many promising bands, so many established bands. Many members are living abroad just to live a good financial life. So, but there are some lights as well, lights of hope is there that people are thinking now.

Because you know, my country's age is only 54 years. We are under construction now in everything. And from the beginning, people used to consider music as a free thing. Yeah. No ticket buying shows or anything. So it has started. The habit has started. Yeah. The people are now buying tickets and the country is shaping up. You have to give that time to an industry to shape up, right?

So that's what we are doing. Like, I'm visiting your world. I'm coming here, sharing my knowledge with my bands, with the respective people who are doing music business and everything. So I believe, but the biggest strength of Bangladesh music is its audience. Yeah. Its soulfulness, its spirituality, its originality. The folk music, the, and, and honesty, uh, honesty in, with honesty in listening to music.

Yeah. Bangladesh people are music lovers, like, like crazy. Yeah. And I shared with you that our audience size is like 40,000, 60,000, 80,000, 100,000, uh, more than that sometimes, you know? So. Yeah. It's hard for me to sort of translate it through a video, uh, because I'm sitting here with myself and looking at it. But like, when I see the videos of you guys playing, it, it seems much more communal than entertainment.

Like, I think a lot of times, you know, in the Western world, it's very much about entertainment, entertain the audience, you know, have this big show where you get overwhelmed. And, and of course that's important as well, but at least from what I can see, it's, it's a very communal thing. It's like you bring people together to celebrate everything you have in between you, which I believe is fundamentally different from most experiences, uh, in the Western world. Absolutely. We, we never forget to celebrate. That's a huge, big spirit of Bangladesh.

We, no matter what, no matter, uh, anything, negativity, we overcome with our smiling face and positive spirit. Yeah. That also impact our music. Yeah. You know? Uh, so it's all connected. If you find the connection, then you will understand Bangladesh. Yeah. So, uh, I, I see a lot of possibilities. I, and you, it is very, it, it's immense pleasure for me to visit, to see that lots of bands are now traveling abroad every month.

They're going as a band. This was not a normal norm from here. Like, organizers used to take one or two members and they expected to do a band concert there. So now it is, it has, uh, reversed. Yeah. Uh, bands are going abroad. They're doing shows. They're meeting their fans in every country. So, so these developments of the whole thing and seeing the journey of music seen in Bangladesh, this is really inspiring to me as well.

Yeah. At least I can say to you. I think a very interesting thing, and this is sort of my own theories. Uh, I was, I was talking to a journalist this, this morning because we've got a lot of attention with AIJ keeping on, you know, international news. But one of the commentaries I'm trying to make is I believe that new technology such as AI will have a pushback from people because they want to have something that's real. As everything else around us gets less real, less human, we are going towards what's real.

And this is a far-fetched argument I'm trying to do. So please, please forgive me if it's wrong. But what I perceived as correct and that you confirmed is the communal aspect of music in Bangladesh. I believe that the consumers will long for strong human connections and experiences in the future much more because of the advancement of technology. And having an aspect of Bangladeshi culture where the communal aspect is so important might bring a lot of value to those audiences that crave that.

So what I'm trying to say is there might be essence of your music culture that the people will appreciate it much more in the future because of the human interconnection than maybe they realized before. So I see that as a very positive thing. Absolutely. When you're talking about the technological advancement, if they affect the Bangladeshi people and their listening habit or anything like that. Also internationally.

So people internationally who have technology and they want to have that genuine human experience, like your music culture might provide that to a big degree. Well, Jacob, for me, I think we are, we are, now it's today, tomorrow, it will be a different thing, right? Right. So we have to accept the change. Yeah. Positively. And there are ways, like negative, positive, both the ways. Like, if you, if I meet the bad Jake today, he would maybe, he would probably kick me or push me.

So, or the Jake we meet today, he has been very inspiring, right? So we, we are, we are in a shifting situation. We are in a shifting situation, like for, from the digital, from the analog to digital, digital to a, in a different form, AI and so many things. I'm not an expert, but so far I know, you know, but we have to accept the change, I guess, and adapt it with the, with the old things.

Yeah. And if, for that, we have to, we have to fix everything here first, you know, first, first year. And whatever we do, we, we have to have a good intention behind it. Yeah. So these, and the rest, they, they are the support system. You do. They, you say it, AI or anything. Yeah. Digital, technological advancement, or any new product related to music or anything.

Yeah. They, they're here to support. Yeah. Not to destroy anything. What is it about your band in particular that can draw a crowd of, of a hundred thousand people? But what is it people come to see? What is it they come to experience? I think for us, it's a big connection. They connect us in a different way. I think they find us, they think us, their own people.

Yeah. They don't think that, oh, rockstar, we cannot go or touch them or talk to them. We are not like that. Yeah. Because we believe that our music is for them. Our, every words, talks about their emotions and everything. They deal with everyday life. We are very respectful to our audience. Yeah.

So, so as they. So, with Chirkot and its audience, the connection is very magical, honestly, Jacob. I've seen it, like, and suppose in a 80,000 crowd full of stadium, we own the, the last person we own for the concert. We sing for him or her as well. Yeah. We connect them. We talk to them. We give them a vibe that we are the same.

We are just, we are just, you know, in, we are just face to face, but we are the same. Yeah. So, these are the things, and they connect our philosophies, and I think our composition, our musicianship, honesty towards our band. Like, 22 years, you are running a band successfully and consistently. Yeah. It's not a, you know, the band thing. Right. Everybody compares it as a family. Like, you fight every time, you argue, and you, lots of things.

But, this togetherness, this devotion, this, and this delivery of what people need through music. So, I think these are the things our, our fans connect, never fail to connect. Yeah. And, one thing I definitely want to mention about our fans, all over the world, that they are never disrespectful to anybody. Like, no other bands, or, they don't judge, our fans only.

I'm talking about our fans. They don't judge about other bands or other artists. So, these are the human qualities, which is nowadays very rare. But, I think our band, Chirkut, and our every member, and our audience are united in all those values and connection points. That's really interesting from a, from a business standpoint.

Because, obviously, this, this podcast is about the commercial opportunities within music. And, whenever you work in an industry that's also where the, let's not call it the product, but the source of everything is music. It's a human interconnection. It's very interesting to see that, that you guys have created a connection with your fans. I believe, sort of, moving into the future of, whatever you would call it, the superfan economy, or the pushback to technology, is about exactly that. How can you, as an artist, how can you, as a band, create a real connection with your fans that can live for many years?

Because, probably when you're out, maybe in a couple of weeks later, we'll have an episode with Josh Greenberg, who's a great music industry guy. And, he talks about consistent revenue as a part of the base of building a successful career. And, how you do that is having connectivity with people over a long time, and they keep engaging with you. And, that is, at least to all the people I speak with, the essence of music economy going in the future.

It's simply not enough anymore to have a great song on the radio, and be exposed at scale. That is not the end goal anymore. It was for some years. Absolutely. It was for some years, and that's fine. But, I think we do all appreciate, like, yeah, it's good with great songs, but give me an amazing story, in a consistent context, a narrative, through an artist's journey. And, that's what I want to put my finances behind. So, I think our revenue, if you talk about revenue, our revenue is love from our fans.

So, we convert. Look, one thing I always say that everybody earns, like, Jacob earns, Shumi earns, everybody earns. Even, even a person who has no home, he also earns something. But, it is very important to be in the core. Being human, spreading love, connection. So, for me, I am, of course, we earn money, we live, but for money, we have not become, like, for money, anything.

For money, money for us, it's not money first. Yeah. You know, that is, so, these are the things I always try to hold back very strongly for my band, and my family, and my office family, and everybody. Everybody, I work with, are, I get in touch. Yeah. To be in core. I always tell everybody to be in core. Yeah. And, rest will follow, rest will follow. Yeah, and it's interesting, and it's definitely not to talk about money, but what's really interesting about what you say is, by not focusing on money, but focus on the core, and the real value, that is what drives the revenue at the end.

It is that interesting. Apparently, you will have money, you will have love, you will have everything. Yeah. Ultimately, it's a very small life. It's a very small life. You never know, I never know I will be alive just right after an hour or not, or right after this moment. Yeah. So, all these materialistic equations doesn't work for me, honestly, Jacob. Yeah. That's why I think I am becoming lonely day by day, maybe, sometimes.

Really? That surroundings I'm not thinking about right that way. It's a, I see a race, a race, a very unhealthy sometimes, a race of earning money, focusing money, showing off things, and everything. But nothing is a problem, but not losing your core values. Yeah. And being with people who love you, who are with you, gratefulness, these virtues are very important.

Yeah. Honestly, for me at least. And I always tell these things, like, I never thought that from zero I would come here. I would play in Madison Square Garden with my band. I would play in South by Southwest. I would play in the UK, Australia, Norway. This is, I still cannot believe, honestly, Jacob. Yeah. When I asked myself how it all happened and what was the magic, I only find honesty, hard work.

Yeah. Honesty, hard work, and creation. Yeah. I think what's very important for the listeners to the podcast, now I'm talking about the ordinary audience, because I assume a lot of your fans will be listening to this as well, is that sometimes, and including myself, in the pursuit of entrepreneurship and music, we sometimes forget that music is not merely just a commodity we can sell. Like, that there's this core thing of inter-human connectivity, of community, of love, that needs to be the source of the business we build upon.

And I think that's important, and that's one of the takeaways I'm taking for you right now, and help me remind you. This is also true, Jacob, that business is also important. Yeah. This is one more thing I am trying to, I don't share something, that with the music, you have to understand the business as well. And understanding the business with music is nothing, has nothing wrong. Yeah. Here, people think that, oh, you are doing business with music, so this is nothing wrong.

Right. As long as you are not harming anybody or doing any bad things to others. Yeah. You have that right to earn money, to music. And if you earn through something you love most, that is the most beautiful thing, I think. Yeah, yeah. You know, and one very important thing is, you have to learn as well when to stop. When you are getting everything, fame, money, and you are, you want more, and you are losing yourself.

Yeah. That is also not healthy. Yeah. So that's, again, to be with the core and at the core is very important. But I have attended Womax. I don't know if you know the name of Womax or not. Yeah, I do, yeah. It is the biggest music meeting of the world. So I have attended two times in Portugal, in Lisbon once and in Porto once. This year, I have been invited as a panelist there in Manchester.

So there I have seen how people are doing, how the business things runs for musicians, journalists, surrounding music, true music. And, you know, in Womax, all the CEOs, executives, producers, artists, journalists from all around the world, they attend.

And they sell their music throughout the year, interact with each other, thousands of people. And there is also showcasing. So I went there, but I couldn't do that music thing, honestly, because I found that I was enjoying that I am here surrounded by thousands of people who thinks about music, who works for music, who are about music.

So I was not doing, like, you know, that networking thing. So it was for me, like I was sitting at a corner and I was looking at people of the world, what they're doing, what they're saying, and the technological things and everything where there, people are singing. And from there, I learned that, again, that to be with music in any form, it is very important if you are a musician.

And, of course, you have to learn the business aspect as well. Yeah. Because if you only sit and want to do music, it will not fit. So this whole system also depends on so many things. It's first individual and that then your fans, the government policy. So many things also needs to collaborate to work out the system. Yeah. You know? So lots of things, yeah.

Okay, Shui, what do you believe is the future of you and your band's career? And what do you believe is the future of Bangladesh as a music industry? I cannot tell about future because I believe in today. Okay. Amazing. Yeah. I never thought of future, honestly. I honestly, I believe that I have to do the best today. So on that context about the band, I know we are working on our fourth album. We have a Canada tour in end of June this year.

I have some international, like, festivals as well to make. We are doing lots of concerts, live concerts for our fans. And most importantly, my band members like Pavel, our drummer, music producer. And he is a heart of the band. Nirop, he is a fantastic musician. And we have Dibbo, the amazing guitarist. Shubro, the amazing guitarist.

We have Ishmam, the bassist. We have Zyves, who is also playing with us. We have our sound engineer, Shagurbai. So we have quite a big team. So everybody is now spending time with each other, discussing with music, what kind of music we want to produce, what kind of music we want to share with our audience, to our fourth album. So today, like, we are doing this.

And about Bangladeshi music, today, everybody is trying. But individually, lots of things are happening. Lots of big, big things are happening, like concerts, stadium concerts, corporate concerts. Those are the earning sources of musicians. Where? Some studio production concerts are happening too, like Coke Studio, Wind of Change.

Bangladeshi music, everything is there. I only feel that there is, we need a good policy, a constructive policy, where everybody can be benefited. The audience and, and this policy cannot be possible without the cooperation or collaboration without the government and the musical institutions and everything. Yeah.

So, but I'm very much hopeful, very much hopeful about Bangladeshi music. He's very contented. It is very rich. It is very, it's just the time we need to be, we need to be there in, in the globe. Yeah. And again, as I said earlier, I talked with Dr. Shinobi from, from Nigeria and see sort of the change of infrastructure within Nigeria and how that sparked sort of the economy for creators to, live from what they love and have it as an export thing.

It's beautiful. And I really hope that, you know, other places around the world that will happen so that the inherent worth that comes from music can be spread around and it can be sustainable for people. And because I think the sustainability is important for any art, because if any, I don't know if you attended my session in Christiansen Roundtable. I did, yeah. The first session you attended? Yeah. I told about that, that we need sustainability in love, strategy. Yeah. I wrote it here just to mean it with that.

Strategy, hard work, consistency, quality, production, connection with audience, originality, love. So, sustainability needs in all these sectors. Yeah. And one more thing is very important, that is our climate. Yeah. And we musicians has a lot of things for that. Yeah. And actually, I was intending of sort of ending the episode on that, because you, Nodhi Rocks, tell us a bit about it. What work are you doing there?

Nodhi Rocks is an idea about saving or creating awareness amongst the youth about our rivers, because Bangladesh is a land of rivers, and we had over 3,000 rivers. Most of them are dead now. Right now, we have 857 rivers. And it is the young generation who has to take the responsibility next time, you know, next phase, to save this world.

And so, my intention was to make an archive in front of them, and showing them that, see, we have these, these things, these beautiful rivers. Try to love them. And if you love them, you cannot harm them. So, that is my core thing. So, we are making one song for each river. Wow. One song for each river as a gesture of care to the rivers from its children. Like, we call mother, we call rivers our mother.

So, we are the children. So, that is a gesture of Nodhi Rocks initiative. So, Switzerland Embassy in Bangladesh, they have supported us for the project. And we have created seven songs on seven rivers by the seven bands, original music. Famous bands and emerging bands together. And we made one music video on that particular river.

Yeah, I've seen it. Yeah, yeah. So that, so that everybody can see that rivers. So, this has become, this has created a huge interest among the young generation, with, for the rivers and, so that has been our objective. Yeah. To create interest, you know, we, maybe we cannot do everything. We cannot stop the Palestine war. We cannot do, stop any war, any kind. But we can, our intention can be pure.

We can, we can connect. Yeah. So, that is the thing. And, I'm, before we end the discussion, Jakob, I definitely want to mention my Norwegian sister, Sulvay Khuram. Yeah. Through her, everything has happened for us, Chirkut. Yeah. Honestly, so, she, she is a friend, a sister, a philosopher for me, and we have been together for the last 13 years, I guess.

We are philosophical sisters now. So, she lives in Norway, and she is working, she is also working with climate awareness with the government of Norway. And, she, she has done her PhD from Christensen University. Yeah. So, I am ever grateful to her. Whenever I feel alone or, or I think of doing anything, so I discuss with her. And, she has a beautiful family, Anurias and her two kids.

So, I meet her. And, of course, Professor Daniel, who gave me the opportunity to be there. And, through him, I know you, and I am here today. Yeah. So, Daniel, I think he is a superman. I think he is a superman. So, these are, I am so grateful that I could connect to you all at KRC. Good. And, give my best regards to Bruce Blunt. I will. While you've been editing the podcast, and I've closed out the podcast a few times.

Shuma, this has been beautiful. And, there's so much to uncover about who you are, what you do. And, I think a lot of people can go in and listen to your music and hear a lot of those stories. Maybe they don't understand the words, but they can understand the emotions that's happening. And, I'm really interested to follow Bangladesh as well as an industry. Like, I'm, I'm only 30. I do feel old, though. But, I'm only 30. And, I have a long career ahead of me. I'm 16. Yeah. Huh? What music? I'm 16.

Yes, you're 16. That's me. But, the future of music will look different the next 30 years. And, I believe parts of the world that did not necessarily contribute to the global music scene from a commercial standpoint now or in the past will do in the future. And, sort of, the cultural effects of different music genres, different music histories will also play in very powerfully. So, I'm just very interested to see what happens over the next 10, 15 years.

And, thank you for being a pioneer within your field. How you see, how you see, what's the scene of your part of the world, of the musical scenario? I think that there's a difference between the consumer and the industry. So, I believe consumers can be quite progressive. So, they can find new genres. They can find new inspirations. And, they can consume music that is not from where they're brought up. And, that's amazing. It seems to, and, I'm trying to be careful with it, but it seems to be very in its own bubble.

It's very, it's own little glass bubble where they talk about themselves and they talk about what's happening with us, historically speaking, and the future. And, it's sort of secluded within their own framework and their own culture and people that look like them. They don't like each other or the overall thing? Huh? They don't like themselves or overall? No, I think it's nothing to do with sentiment of who they like and who they don't like. I think it's just... No, the work. Not the work. The work?

About their work. I've been talking about their work. Yeah. I think that there's nothing wrong with what they like and the work or anything. It's just, it's so used to operate within the frameworks of what they know that we tend to forget as an industry that there's something outside of what we used to know that has immense value. And, obviously, they understand it from a macro perspective of what's happening in Nigeria, what's happening in Sub-Saharan Africa and sort of East and world.

We forget to think about it on an individual level. Like, what would that, how would that affect me in the future of music that I work with? Because I believe that the love that you describe at your concerts, the community that you describe at your concerts, is something that many artists in the West need, especially what they're going into now. And, you know, I look towards the East and Korea, how they interact with fans and monetize that thing. We were trying to copy it because the real value is the artist-fan relationship on a community level. So, I believe that the industry is opening up to understanding the values outside the reality we've been in for too long.

And that is the really interesting part for me. It's like the world is getting smaller and we realize that our neighbors have something beautiful we have not appreciated enough. And that's my point. You have quite a deep observation, but that's not true always because your neighbor, like me, you've invited me. But that's the effort that we as an industry need to do correctly because things are happening that did not happen before.

And we're exposed to the love that you bring that maybe weren't exposed to before. And there's so much to benefit from, understanding what it is and inviting it in. Well, and with that being said, thank you for putting your time here. Thank you for accepting my invitation and bringing your love to the podcast. I appreciate it so much. And it's very exciting to have AI Jake also part of it. So, we brought some new and we brought some future love as well. Yeah. Thank you, Jacob. And thank you, Jake, for having me in your show.

I have seen Shane talking with you. I have seen Martin talking with you. So, I already had an association with your show. So, I'm privileged and honored. So, hope to see you soon. And you take care and all my best wishes for your show and to Ruslan as well. Thank you, Sharmin. We'll talk soon. Bye-bye.